HARD START

Tenman

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Joined
Dec 7, 2013
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2,102
Location
Natchez Ms USA
After my last warm engine hard start a few years ago. I came home and cycled my key 20 times and she fired right up. The other day I was adjusting my headlight and killed it a few times without the kill switch and it coughed a time or two but started without much difficulty. This really is weird.
 

raynchk

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
68
Location
Douglas, AZ
I just went through hell for the past day and a half. Haven't been riding because of a foot problem and bike has been setting for about 2/3 weeks. Yesterday went to fire her up and the old battery (OEM on 2016) didn't spin her fast enough and she wouldn't start. Charged and still had the same problem so went to Yamaha dealer (50 miles) and bought a new battery (14 rather than 12). Came home and tried to put battery in the wrong way... duh... and godd*am thing still wouldn't start. Left her on the charger all night and this morning she still wouldn't start. Puled air cleaner and checked filter, then pulled an easy to get to plug. Put everything back together and only had 1 rubber bushing left over :mad: (appx 1/2 x 3/4)? Cranked twice and after about 10 seconds she started. Never had a problem with this before. I think what I did wrong was replacing my Cyclops bulb and afterwards starting her up and not letting her run long enough, then shutting down and not putting the bike on a trickle charger. Somehow, my trust in the S10 has been diminished.
 

Cycledude

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Jan 29, 2016
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Rib lake wi
I believe This is some kind of Yamaha problem, currently 546,000 miles on my Goldwing and the only time it has ever failed to start was when the battery was completely dead because I left the key in the accessory position overnight.
 

Sierra1

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Nov 7, 2016
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14,819
Location
Joshua TX
….Left her on the charger all night and this morning she still wouldn't start....
Are you letting her cycle through the diagnostic start up thing when you turn the key on, before you hit the start button? I don't get to keep mine on a 'Tender very often, and my battery is about done. She will crank slow, but has always started. The only two times that she didn't, was when I hit the start button too soon.
 

Cycledude

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Jan 29, 2016
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Rib lake wi
That just boggles my mind!! Those are some serious miles. And you have more than one bike!!
New experience today, washed Goldwing yesterday, this morning rode it 10 miles to local Walmart to pickup a prescription it was 21 degrees and i couldn’t turn it off because the switch was frozen, rode it back home and thawed the switch out with a heat gun, put a little WD40 on the key and everything worked fine again, rode back to Walmart and wondered all the while if the switch might be frozen again when I got there but it wasn’t, put on about 150 miles today and I believe that switch is actually turning easier than it has for a long time.
 
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raynchk

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Nov 28, 2017
Messages
68
Location
Douglas, AZ
Are you letting her cycle through the diagnostic start up thing when you turn the key on, before you hit the start button? I don't get to keep mine on a 'Tender very often, and my battery is about done. She will crank slow, but has always started. The only two times that she didn't, was when I hit the start button too soon.
Yes, I let her cycle through the startup thing. I've been noticing this starting thing for awhile now, but never has she completely refused to start. I attribute it to failing battery, I'm going to do a spark plug/air filter tuneup soon which may help also. She's got 20,000 miles so I might have dealer do that and get valves checked at the same time. This along with the cruise control problem are definitely quirks of the S10. That '20 Africa Twin is looking better and better -- if only she had a driveshaft..
 

BaldKnob

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
776
Location
SENC
I think what I did wrong was replacing my Cyclops bulb and afterwards starting her up and not letting her run long enough, then shutting down...
This^^^ appears to be the common denominator. That... and a weakened battery, are a recipe for the hard start.
 

Riteris

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
115
Location
Washington, DC
I have been having hard start issues on my 2015. I cannot get the bike to start today.

Through the winter, I did not ride but started the bike and let it warm up to operating temperature and let it idle for a short while after that. I did this several times.

Back in March, I started having hard start issues.

I replaced the battery with the recommended battery but did not find out about the higher capacity battery until I installed the original style battery.

The bike would reluctantly start. I then started keeping the bike on a Battery Tender Jr.

I have put some 500 miles on the bike since March and have gone through at least two tanks of gas.

Last week the bike stalled at a stop sign and would not start up. I walked the bike home and did some more research here.

I then found out about the WOT start procedure. It did not work.

Yesterday, I replaced the spark plugs. As the bike has 20,000 miles, I had been wanting to do this anyway. Upon inspection, the plugs were somewhat brown but certainly not terrible.

I tried the WOT technique and could not get the bike to start.

I then jumped the bike's battery with the original battery (which has been holding a charge for weeks) and the bike started with the WOT technique.

I let the bike idle until hot and then some. I shut the bike off and let it sit for 5 minutes. I then was able to re-start the bike without issue.

Today, I could not get the bike to start. I then tried the WOT technique and got nothing.

- I have always thought the bike was a very wimpy starter. In the past the bike always sneezed to life but it always seemed rather week. Is this the nature of this bike?

- After fully charging the battery with the Battery Tender Jr. light on green, I measured 12.7 volts. That seems a bit low to me. (Shouldn't it be slightly above 13 volts?) As I am typing this, I am wondering if the battery is low and, as a battery maintainer (as opposed to full charger) the Battery Tender Jr. does not have the capability of bring it up higher. Am I asking too much from the Battery Tender Jr.?

I am willing to buy a full scale battery charger but this Battery Tender Jr. has worked well for me on several different bikes. My habit of not riding much through the winter and periodically starting and idling until hot has worked for me on every bike I have owned since I started riding.

At this point, I feel like I need to address this an an electrical issue rather than a hard start issue. If external charging is not the issue, does this point to the bike's alternator or other electrical components ans being the source of the problem?

Do you think I am missing something here? Thanks for any other suggestions.

(As I am growing increasing frustrated with the bike I am also posting this on ADV Rider.)
 

Riteris

Active Member
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Jul 8, 2017
Messages
115
Location
Washington, DC
One more question:

I use the Battery Tender Jr. through an SAE connector to the battery with a fuse in the line.

Can I use this connectio to jump start the battery? (I am thinking of carrying one of those small jump starters. Something I NEVER considered needing as this bike has me that paranoid.)

What size fuse should I put in there? A 7.5 amp works fine with the battery tender but I doubt it would be happy with a full jump start.
 

Nikolajsen

"Keep it simple"
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
2,046
Location
Denmark
Yes, the kind of "wimpy" start, is normal....(sound like it will stop when reach compression, piston in top )
But mine have also started anyway..
I also put on a lithium battery (360 cca), but it did not turn the engine any faster, BUT it don't sound like it is about to stop when piston is in top.

I did not try the 14S battery

I would not use the charger plug for jumpstart, the plug might not be able to manege the Amp
 

Riteris

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
115
Location
Washington, DC
Fitting a 387 CCA lithium battery has cured this wimpy starting behavior for me.
I just ordered an Antigravity battery and Optimate charger. I sure hope this works!

Anybody want to buy a four month old, lightly used Yuasa battery?
 
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Jlq1969

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May 5, 2018
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1,749
Location
Argentina
After fully charging the battery with the Battery Tender Jr. light on green, I measured 12.7 volts. That seems a bit low to me. (Shouldn't it be slightly above 13 volts?) As I am typing this, I am wondering if the battery is low and, as a battery maintainer (as opposed to full charger) the Battery Tender Jr. does not have the capability of bring it up higher. Am I asking too much from the Battery Tender Jr.?
you don't need a huge charger for a motorcycle battery. The ideal charge, to ensure full charge, is a “slow charge”. So, for a slow charge, The best is the charge amperage is equal to 10%(approx)of the battery's ampere-hour capacity. Not the CCA.....
conclusion. if the charger releases 2 amp / h .... it is the ideal charge. If you release more amps, the load will be faster, but incomplete
A90E793C-9E57-450E-B68E-9B69E1850948.jpeg
 

Skytower

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Jun 9, 2020
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Location
Norfolk, VA
Put a meter on the battery leads while the bike is running. If you're not getting at least 13vdc, it's not charging. Also check for any AC voltage. There shouldn't be any.
 

Riteris

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
115
Location
Washington, DC
you don't need a huge charger for a motorcycle battery. The ideal charge, to ensure full charge, is a “slow charge”. So, for a slow charge, The best is the charge amperage is equal to 10%(approx)of the battery's ampere-hour capacity. Not the CCA.....
conclusion. if the charger releases 2 amp / h .... it is the ideal charge. If you release more amps, the load will be faster, but incomplete
View attachment 68352
This is why I thought the Battery Tender, Jr. was fine for my needs. It has been in the past. I just cannot figure out if my bike problem is electrical or fueling issues.

Even with what seems to be a fully charged battery, it will not start. It seems when I boost the battery with a second battery it seems okay.

With that in mind, I am going to try a high cca lithium battery. I have one on order.

But, it is puzzling to me why I should need this now.
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,516
Location
Ventura, CA
I've had engines refuse to start with nothing particularly wrong that I could find. My wife's car wouldn't start after sitting in the rain overnight. After a lot cranking, I figured the plugs were probably fouled. I pulled them (they were dark but not wet) and ran them through an abrasive blast cleaner that I have, lightly filed the electrodes to expose fresh metal, and reset the gaps. They looked brand new, but when I installed them, the car still refused to start. Not even a hint that it was trying. Out of desperation, I pulled the plugs again and installed a brand new set that I had. I was hoping not to have to use them. After installing them the engine immediately fired up like nothing was ever wrong. I've had similar experiences with my yard equipment, nothing obviously wrong with the old plug, but replacing it solved the starting problem.

How fresh are your plugs? (sorry if I missed that above somewhere)
 

Riteris

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Jul 8, 2017
Messages
115
Location
Washington, DC
I put new plugs in on Sunday.

As I wrote, they were on my schedule for replacement. But, they were not bad looking. A little brown and the gaps were in spec. If nothing else, I checked one more box in this incredibly frustrating experience.

I think my next step is installing a higher cca Antigravity I have on order. Hopefully, it will be here by Saturday and I can do the install on Sunday.
 

Dirt_Dad

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Sep 21, 2010
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I once thought I had a hard start issue on my wife's 2017 Tenere. Turned out there is a position on the key where you can turn it and it does not go into the detent. It allows the electrical to come on and the starter to spin, but the bike will not start. Happened when we were 6000 miles from home and I was getting nervous. Fired right up when the key went into the detent.
 
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