Handlebar front brake switches / Cruise Enable / Rear Brake Light

[mebgardner]

I did not know whether to put this under "Brakes", or "Electrical", so it's here under "General"

New 2016 Non-ES model. 3700 miles on it.

I began having Refusal to Enable Cruise issues. Flashing amber lamp upon cruise enable switch "on" to system. Sometimes it would give me steady amber at enable, and then subsequently engage upon request, and sometimes it would flash amber at enable, and refuse to engage upon request.

Intermittent issue, no rhyme or reason to it.

Very soon after this started, I noticed a brake light illumination problem when pre-flighting the front and rear brakes. The brake light lamp would remain at full illumination when I pulled the lever, or stepped on the pedal. It stayed at, was stuck at, full brake light illumination ("always on").

I went, "Crap, a broke rear brake switch". Nope...

I isolated the problem to the front brake switch. I knew from previous reading that the rear was a dual switch configuration. Now I know the front brake switch is a similar configuration, in that there are two electrical switches in the plastic housing.

What I discovered is, the engagement of those two front switches does not occur simultaneously. It occurs sequentially, *by design*.

When you pull the front brake lever, first one switch "trips" to open / close (whatever they do when they depress into the switch housing), then as you pull harder, the other switch "trips" to open / close.

They do this by design, by a mechanical offset of a couple millimeters, in the switch housing plunger that presses against the switches, as you depress the plunger with your lever pull.

I've never seen anything like this before.

Anyway, I can wiggle it (push on the switch housing external plunger) and it changes the conditions I've described.

Now I get to experience firsthand the Joy of visiting, and leaving my cycle with, the dealer repair shop as I attempt a warranty claim. Oh Joy!

 

[Crew Chief]

The drawing does show two sets of contacts in each of those switches. One of the output wires goes to the brake light relay and branches there and the branch goes to the ECM. The other output wire goes to the ECM through the throttle switch. I just got these drawings and I don't like how Yamaha draws a switch. I'll look closer in a while and see if something jumps out at me that might be useful.

 

[gv550]

Mebgardner, do you have a stored fault code 90?
I have the same 2016 non ES with the same flashing cruise light issue, waiting to hear back from my dealer this week.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The drawing does show two sets of contacts in each of those switches. One of the output wires goes to the brake light relay and branches there and the branch goes to the ECM. The other output wire goes to the ECM through the throttle switch. I just got these drawings and I don't like how Yamaha draws a switch. I'll look closer in a while and see if something jumps out at me that might be useful.

I never noticed that. It sure would explain people having cruise engagement issues when the brake light check is good.

 

[gv550]

The drawing does show two sets of contacts in each of those switches. One of the output wires goes to the brake light relay and branches there and the branch goes to the ECM. The other output wire goes to the ECM through the throttle switch. I just got these drawings and I don't like how Yamaha draws a switch. I'll look closer in a while and see if something jumps out at me that might be useful.

Indeed, and the onboard diagnostic function has a test for both contacts in both switches. Step 82 tests the cruise cancel switches and step 83 tests the brake light switches. My bike passes all the tests, yet after a short ride the cruise light flashes and fault code 90 is displayed.

 

[mebgardner]

The drawing does show two sets of contacts in each of those switches... The other output wire goes to the ECM through the throttle switch.

Thanks Chief.

Ummm, that wire through the "throttle" switch. That's the "negative throttle" switch that disengages cruise when applying negative throttle (closing it "all the way" closed and a bit more), correct?

That's the throttle switch you're referring to?

 

[mebgardner]

Mebgardner, do you have a stored fault code 90?

I'll have to check, I don't know.

 

[mebgardner]

I've decided how to proceed.

I've delivered the cycle to the dealer repair on Friday, but I'm pulling it back out without them touching it, tomorrow (closed today, monday).

I had this switch assembly mechanically apart, and during initial examination while it was still mounted to the lever, I noticed the two plastic "halves" of the enclosure were separating. That allows a gap for water and dirt to enter the plunger area.

Four plastic latches hold the thing closed, and it was easy to pry them open to separate the two halves, once it was removed from the brake lever mount.

A bit of cleaning in there apparently solved the issue for me. My wife followed me (preventing rear end collision during transport) to the dealer. She told me upon arrival that she did not see any problem with the rear brakelight, during my braking. (Remember, intermittent brake light behavior at problem onset). I tested the cruise enable multiple times during the ride over, and did not have any problem getting a steady amber.

I'm gonna get my bike back and do this:

Dismount the assembly from the brake lever. Separate and clean the halves, and components (both internal switches mount, in one way only). Reassemble. Wrap exterior horizontally with electrical tape (to seal gap), wrap one wrap of electrical tape vertically with overlap clamped by remounting device to lever, make holes in tape wrap for device indexing (there's a mechanical nub for indexing onto the lever), and do not wrap in the vertical direction that would interfere with the brake lever / plunger interface (ie: wrap it in the other direction).

That's my plan to save some bucks. I think it will work.

An aside: I eyeballed the clutch switch device too, but I did not remove it or split it open. It looks like the same thing??

 

[mebgardner]

Indeed, and the onboard diagnostic function has a test for both contacts in both switches. Step 82 tests the cruise cancel switches and step 83 tests the brake light switches. My bike passes all the tests, yet after a short ride the cruise light flashes and fault code 90 is displayed.

Indeed

The onboard diagnostic function likely bypasses the switches and wiring, by asserting a "shorting" path between the contacts, internally to the ECU. Said a different way: The test bypasses the harness and switches.

Of course it passes that test...

 

[Crew Chief]

Thanks Chief.

Ummm, that wire through the "throttle" switch. That's the "negative throttle" switch that disengages cruise when applying negative throttle (closing it "all the way" closed and a bit more), correct?

That's the throttle switch you're referring to?

Yup

 

[gv550]

Indeed

The onboard diagnostic function likely bypasses the switches and wiring, by asserting a "shorting" path between the contacts, internally to the ECU. Said a different way: The test bypasses the harness and switches.

Of course it passes that test...

I don't know the logic within the onboard diagnostic, but I doubt it bypasses the switches. When implementating step 82 the dash displays ON or OFF as I operate each switch, I can hear the front micro switch making and breaking contact while moving the lever and the dash display reacts accordingly every time. I rode 4 hours today and the cruise failed to set 3 times, turning the ignition off and back on got it working again, and it set fault code 90 each time (brake switch failure).
All this happened 2 weeks before my warranty expired, I had my dealer service it but all he did was clear the code, never adjusted or replaced any parts. I'm off warranty now so waiting to hear back from the dealership how and if they plan to fix it.
I didn't take my front switch apart but did have it off and sprayed contact cleaner into the access hole. I think I'll take it apart tonite.

 

[mebgardner]

I don't know the logic within the onboard diagnostic, but I doubt it bypasses the switches. When implementating step 82 the dash displays ON or OFF as I operate each switch, I can hear the front micro switch making and breaking contact while moving the lever and the dash display reacts accordingly every time. I rode 4 hours today and the cruise failed to set 3 times, turning the ignition off and back on got it working again, and it set fault code 90 each time (brake switch failure).
All this happened 2 weeks before my warranty expired, I had my dealer service it but all he did was clear the code, never adjusted or replaced any parts. I'm off warranty now so waiting to hear back from the dealership how and if they plan to fix it.
I didn't take my front switch apart but did have it off and sprayed contact cleaner into the access hole. I think I'll take it apart tonite.

OK, thanks, got it. It's not a "Boot Up, Built In Test / Diagnostic" that runs as part of normal ignition on sequence. You're describing a test performed under user control, with user defined actions ("pull this lever, watch the display winky light...").

So, with regards to this lever and it's dual switch interfaces: Note the two switches have a physical offset / plunger activation engagement point with respect to each other. That is, it's possible to partially pull the brake lever and engage just one switch and not the other. You have to pull harder, to engage them both. That's due to the physical offset of the plunger engagement, by design, that I was mentioning in 1st post.

You'll see it when you have the beast apart.

I would suspect the 2nd switch is in parallel with the "negative throttle" switch. A "wired OR" gate, if you will. Either switch will disengage cruise, but you have to pull the brake lever somewhat harder than "just lighting the (brake) light" pull, to get the brake lever to disengage cruise. That is, under normal operating circumstances...

But, If that 2nd brake lever switch is broke (does not close switch circuit)? Cruise will refuse enable (and you get a blinky amber light) upon enable request.

That plunger is spring loaded to un-switch (release pressure) on the two switches, upon lever release. It seems to me that you should not be able to pull the lever hard enough to engage the 2nd switch, and break the 1st one with too much force. So, it must be spring loaded in both directions to prevent that from happening.

If that's true (and I believe it for now from what I remember), then... it could "stick". The plunger could be moved inward by effort on the lever, but not move the switch cause the plunger is "stuck" at a point before the switch engagement point. By Dirt...

 

[gv550]

I disassembled my front brake switch, as you say there are 2 separate micro switches and they are mounted so one (the cruise switch) is activated before the light switch. With the cover off I played with the switch and watched as it would sometimes cause the cruise light to flash and set code 90, and upon closer inspection I noticed the inner plunger was sticking inside the main plunger.
I then took it completely apart, both switches removed, compressed the big spring and pulled it out, then pushed the small plunger into the main plunger and took them out together. When I removed the small plunger I noticed score marks on the sides, and there is a smaller spring inside the plunger.
With both switches now exposed and free of each other, I turned on the ignition and cruise and began activating them separate and in sequence and discovered every time I released the light switch before the cruise switch........ the cruise light would begin flashing and code 90 set. Even with the cruise turned off, if the light switch was activated before the cruise switch the ECU remembered this and would set code 90 as soon as cruise was turned on. So with the small plunger sometimes sticking the light switch would activate before the cruise switch and this triggers code 90.
I smeared grease on the small plunger and put it back together without the cover and the small plunger always moved freely and the cruise appears to work properly. Snapped the cover back on and mounted the switch back on the handlebar, and went for a ride.
In the past, the cruise would fail early in the ride and today it failed 3 times within 50 kms but then worked fine for 200 kms. Tonight I rode 70 kms with lots of braking and cruise light stayed on the whole time. I'll go for a longer ride tomorrow and report back.

 

[Crew Chief]

Very nice work. I hope it continues to bear fruit.

 

[Checkswrecks]

You guys have really come across something good for the group to know.
Thank you !!!

 

[mebgardner]

You're very kind. Thank You!

A follow-on: I mentioned the clutch switch housing looks like the same think from the outside. I'm now wondering if it is also a "double switch"?

Can someone please confirm / deny?

 

[Crew Chief]

Yes it is, but I think the operation is different. The contacts that concern the Cruise Control are closed when the lever is released, the other switch is for the starting circuit and is closed when pulled.

 

[gv550]

Yes, the clutch is also a double switch. Cruise cancel is out near the end of lever travel and start interlock is with the lever pulled almost to the handgrip. Much more separation than the brake switch.

 

[gv550]

No joy...... :'(
On a ride today and the cruise worked perfectly for 230kms then quit, same flashing light and code 90.
I restarted and it quit twice again in the next 150 kms. The first time it quit I was riding through a town with numerous stops and just happened to look down and saw it flashing. The second time I saw it begin flashing as I pulled the front brake, and the third time it began flashing on its own without touching either brake.
I'm beginning to think this is a software issue, considering all the work and parts that Sigeye has thrown at his bike. There is what? 5 of us right now with the same problem, Sigeye, Bigbob, Eville Rich, Mebgardner and myself. I've been here only a year but the Gen 2 has been around 4 years so why are there 5 of us now and none before this?

 

[Crew Chief]

I wonder if Plugeye has talked to the engineers like he hoped he'd be able to. I also wonder if they have been made aware of the additional bikes with problems.