ES Fork Cap Dissassembly

holligl

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ES is the same idea except the cap has the integral stepper motor and needle valve assembly. The cap is bottomed on the damper rod before tightening the jam nut. At least that's how the ES FJR is reassembled.
Yes, the same for ST ES.

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gv550

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And to start a war - what Fork Oil should I order? Since I am really cluelss about the subtle differences I am inclined to go with OEM Yamalube
I’ve never had a Tenere damper rod apart, but others have and reported the orifices in the compression valve AE20AE2E-3B25-4C33-A9D3-7D69A9B14513.jpegare very small. These are Kayaba (KYB) forks supplied to Yamaha, and they have their own branded oil. No viscosity number but it is 15 cst at 40C, same as yamalube fork oil. KYB oil is $25/qt, Yamaha $45/litre.
I’ve tried other brands of 5w but the KYB oil works best for me.
 
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ocgeek

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I've done the forks yesterday and i can confirm what was said before about the rod puller.
When the rod is pulled oil emerges from the top of the rod. On the right fork (ES) which provides extension dumping this happens in a copious way... so i followed advice above and drilled a hole in the homemade rod pulled and also covered it with a finger of a rubber glove (otherwise it will throw a jet of oil at 2 mt distance when you pull up ..trust me...)

I had no need for a dumper holder to screw the bottom bolt/washer out / back. (I used an impact driver to screw it out)
Thought i had to get hep inserting the spring back in the fork and pushing against the wall to have some grip on the right fork that was opposing more resistance (the dumper was free rotating inside the fork...grrr)
Once the thread was at the end of its travel i was able to torque it properly without any further issues.




As the Fork oil is concerned
it is either the reccomended Yamalube Suspension fork oil 01
or Kayaba (which i believe is identical)
The Characteristics of the oil are
15.60 CST@40, 3.45 CST@100, VI=150 (Viscosity Index)

Another option (not sure if it is also ava in US) is the
FUCHS SILKOLENE 02 SYNTHETIC
The Characteristics of the oil are
17,94 CST@40, 5,27 CST@100, VI=260 (It shall be more consistent within wider Temp ranges)
I've used this one (it is fully synthetic).
The oils is very thin and it gets messy...lol

The forks are now back in place... if sun decides to come back i'll do a short test ride

Few pics of the dismantling / remounting below.
I would like to thank everyone for the very precious hints and very useful comments in this thread
Out















 
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holligl

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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aE
As the Fork oil is concerned
it is either the reccomended [B][COLOR=rgb(235, 107, 86)]Yamalube Suspension fork oil 01[/COLOR][/B]
or Kayaba (which i believe is identical)
The Characteristics of the oil are
[COLOR=rgb(235, 107, 86)]15.60 CST@40, 3.45 CST@100, VI=150[/COLOR] (Viscosity Index)

Another option (not sure if it is also ava in US) is the
[B][COLOR=rgb(147, 101, 184)]FUCHS SILKOLENE 02 SYNTHETIC[/COLOR][/B]
The Characteristics of the oil are
[COLOR=rgb(147, 101, 184)]17,94 CST@40, 5,27 CST@100, VI=260[/COLOR] (It shall be more consistent within wider Temp ranges)
I've used this one (it is fully synthetic).
The oils is very thin and it gets messy...lol


[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NEdXpzh_BqE7aHuhUFd2ByE7hsqaYQGPjRYHVA7kV-7PPR_zPMaNFCibJx-I-_dbMpG9zwU6fk06o1Awqa-vzfrGc9A_lzkasnvIAKTHSbyBv5WoBz_7Oi3eZzS23ISiMpAPR7T2z4kcmN7zKc5gngKq5B0BSSnUDLNRBSD1oB83WxY247OBSvc5BfrgRxCjc4A4VEbYRjNyuEZHlbRSkE3lbu0Kc0_x_TqnRTFvuVRxrS-xdNeRktenCJ3bjCnY-KnWKHlTvbpLLtZFxiIsmDUCL-N-EHTLO9ltsALOn5EuWvebVVD6FlJhnofmST89nDcb8qgA4aQiIUCpAfH10-erfVpxur42bZsCKJQiKAv8PuJ2sUOsm1EyDfsvKyTnT1PifxnoAk6AyqRPP4VAkzfL1ONMGYGZvbOTghZ3zP7UndGBJih2zbvzjrRWGZn_EsbZZYJrWsIKMOj8c9Ctv1rk1j3oblarGPXuMeJv1m07e3kT8t9orPMVmPvegk1RU-gLOesu_7UbihaJeqot5qAFV5OmqVwD9oR585HSS6mfm3rFX7FRhtDqZ8-wgOb80Ilqq_Ix-xd0bySkxi4O-LIfM5In4-5ZBOIxW6Cb8hkJRGSq3qBhM3Akl7TKhzooOjQjs_Ko1ewPxnBLa2QRtlzWVjukYazwW0OLG5aR_VvODN_soJggbRj6iSBkiuqe5s6NL18Pdq1N2ugSIIONVaQuRR3wz8RFpGTES-pZEAcMFRFn=w1000-no-tmp.jpg
Which one did you use? The OEM I used was more clear.

Thanks for the details. You could probably sell that tool (wrench) if you made more (if the price is right). Much lighter and more compact than what I ended up with.

One more note from me. Make sure you pay attention to the brake hose routing (like the manual says), as you put it all back together. I had tied the calipers back to the crash bars to keep them clear, then had to again remove the front wheel and half the fender to correct the routing.

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ocgeek

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As i mentioned i used the Silkolene (yes it is a bit darker)

The "key" was POS... it is too thin and it widened in 2 secs as i tried to unlock the 44mm nut. I had to revert to a 600 grams english wrench

Indeed and thanks for pointing that out i fuck...d up the routing of the brake hoses at the left leg.... ahhhhh grrrrr as it goes in front of the fork.... :eek:
 

bnschroder

2014 Super Tenere ES
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Do you actually have to pull/remove the damper rod assembly to remove all the fork oil or can you change the oil without doing so? I seem to be seeing conflicting reports (and would love to skip the step if possible)
 

holligl

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Do you actually have to pull/remove the damper rod assembly to remove all the fork oil or can you change the oil without doing so? I seem to be seeing conflicting reports (and would love to skip the step if possible)
Kind of like the difference in changing engine oil, some old oil is retained, and more is required for a torn down engine. You should be able to get most of it, if you stroke the damper during draining and hang upside down for a while (overnight). You do need to remove the spring and guide to be able fully and freely exercise the damper.

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jrusell

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You can simply dump the old if you don't want to remove the spring. No issue, just capture the oil removed and replace.
Here is a good video on how to do it. Same procedure for ES and non ES forks. Greasing the seals is a good idea as well.

 

bnschroder

2014 Super Tenere ES
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Thank you. And one last question on the ES - how much fork oil do I need for both legs? 1 qt enough or do I need more?
 

ocgeek

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Thank you. And one last question on the ES - how much fork oil do I need for both legs? 1 qt enough or do I need more?
I ened up using some more than 1 liter... better 2 liters IMHO if you dismantle the forks
If you just do the other way (pour, measure, put back, which i would not do personally) then you would be good with 1 liter
 
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ocgeek

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As i mentioned i used the Silkolene (yes it is a bit darker)

The "key" was POS... it is too thin and it widened in 2 secs as i tried to unlock the 44mm nut. I had to revert to a 600 grams english wrench

Indeed and thanks for pointing that out i fuck...d up the routing of the brake hoses at the left leg.... ahhhhh grrrrr as it goes in front of the fork.... :eek:
Had to remove the brake pads, front wheel, pull out the left fork and put all of that back... :mad:

Now the routing of the brake line is fixed. Can't thank you enough Holligl for picking it up

Thanks man ;)

 
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holligl

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Had to reove brake pads, front wheel, pull out the left fork and put all of that back... :mad:

Now the routing of the brake line is fixed. Can't than you enough Holligl for picking it up
Thanks man ;)

Glad you fixed it before riding. You probably didn't have to pull the fork though. If you pull the right side caliper over to the left, with the left side of the fender un bolted, I was able to get the line under the fork and back to the middle. It was late at night and I realized my error when I went to put the left caliper on. Went to bed thinking I had disassemble down to pulling the fork, but saw the short cut was possible.

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holligl

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Thank you. And one last question on the ES - how much fork oil do I need for both legs? 1 qt enough or do I need more?
See #63 above, for ES: 505mls and 493mls. (I can't easily get to my manual to confirm which is right and left.) 1 liter will be enough, if you don't spill any.

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holligl

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You can simply dump the old if you don't want to remove the spring. No issue, just capture the oil removed and replace.
Here is a good video on how to do it. Same procedure for ES and non ES forks. Greasing the seals is a good idea as well.

IF doing it this way, only replace the amount of oil you remove from each fork (and hope you didn't leak any oil before.) If you simply add the specified amount, you will overfill! To ensure the oil level is correct, you have to remove the spring and guide, and measure the height of the oil (148mm from the top of the compressed tube.)

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bnschroder

2014 Super Tenere ES
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See #63 above, for ES: 505mls and 493mls. (I can't easily get to my manual to confirm which is right and left.) 1 liter will be enough, if you don't spill any.

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Thanks - but unfortunately the US are still not on the metric system so they sell you f...ing quarts, and that’s definitely not enough.


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holligl

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Thanks - but unfortunately the US are still not on the metric system so they sell you f...ing quarts, and that’s definitely not enough.


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Yamalube sold in 1L container. Not the cheapest though. If you can only get quarts you'll need two unless you're doing a simple drain and refill. 1 QT probably enough for that.

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ocgeek

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ocgeek,
... On a compression stroke oil is forced up the centre of the hollow cartridge damper rod to the top of the fork where the stepper motors are and I assume where a compression shim stack is. Hence my question "has anyone unscrewed the stepper motors from the fork cap".

As a bit of background, I admit I am no expert but I've re valved many motorcycles over the years, modified existing valve ports etc, yes it is a tricky subject and one never stops learning.
Hi Bart thanks.

Coming back to the original question now that i have opened up the forks and looked a bit to the dynamics of those. It is known that the left (riding direction) fork controls the compression while the right fork controls the extension.
That said and i had inspected the top cap (the one which integrates the stepper motor) closely and seen how the oils flows through them i can say that the "only" thing that the top cap does is to control the oil flow which arises from the dumper through the M10 hollow rod by means of a needle controlled opening.
The stepper motor controls the depth of that needle in the tiny opening and by doing that restricts more or less (e.g. setting Hard vs. Soft) the flow of the oil up from the dumper and back in the fork tube.
Oil goes through the needle controlled opening and flows back out of the top cap side openings (there are four on the edges) into the fork tube. See pic here below



Long story short the dumper has the valve stack in it and the flow of the oil (e.g. speed of reaction) is controlled by the cap needle opening.

This is my take away of how the hydraulic system is implemented in the ES forks (btw it seems there is no preload control on the ES forks....like it is on the non ES...)

So to soften the forks you would either use (or both)
- lighter oil than the standard 15ish CST@40
- re-valve the dumper to obtain a softer dumping (but this will have the effect of a wobbisher riding and perhaps induce more diving on braking)

Hope this make any sense

Cheers
 
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Bart

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Yes, agree about the fork caps/needle valve etc but there is some valving on the damper rod piston too. There is a photo on here of when Regulator had his forks revalved by Racetech showing various valve bodies that were replaced.
https://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?threads/my-re-spring-of-the-s10-es-shock.17861/page-4

After pondering on this for a while, I had some softer fork linear springs made as after 12k miles I've only ever used no more than 3/4 of the stroke and that included some rough roads in Romania. I have just installed the springs but not had a chance to try them yet and will do a separate thread once I've got more info.
 
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