Electrical System turns on, but no starter engagement
- Thread starter Michelada
- Start date
Michelada
New Member
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
Are you still hearing clicking coming from the starter relay in addition to clicking coming from the fuel pump relay? When you say "no positive results", I assume you mean that the starter didn't turn over at all?
Rapid clicking from a relay is either a low voltage condition, or a high resistance condition. If you have a good battery but a poor connection somewhere between the battery and the starter, you could get that relay clicking sound. It seems like you've ruled out a bad battery, in that the condition seems to exist for both the bike battery and the donor battery.
Are you still getting panel lights when you turn the key on?
Rapid clicking from a relay is either a low voltage condition, or a high resistance condition. If you have a good battery but a poor connection somewhere between the battery and the starter, you could get that relay clicking sound. It seems like you've ruled out a bad battery, in that the condition seems to exist for both the bike battery and the donor battery.
Are you still getting panel lights when you turn the key on?
Michelada
New Member
Hi @RCinNC I've discovered that the starter relay that was on the bike when I bought it (I'm the 3rd owner) has the Battery and Starter Motor terminals reversed, when compared to the $9.15 starter relays that I've purchased, this also affects the posts for the Ignition and starter switches which I know think are reversed. Will do more work on the bike in a few minutes. Thanks, Michelada
Michelada
New Member
@RCinNC and @Boris. My Dad (he's an engineer) confirmed that my old starter relay was bad and I somehow fried the 2nd starter relay as the fuse is melted in place. We checked another starter relay, confirmed that it's good and installed it. It's performing as it should. So, it seems that I need to get a new starter. I asked ChatGPT and learned that the part# is 2BS-81890-00-00 . If you or anyone has some guidance on replacement, that would be appreciated. Thanks!
scott123007
Well-Known Member
Of bigger concern is in your first post you said it "died" while riding and wouldn't restart. Your issue may not be just a failed solenoid or starter. I'm grasping for straws here, but are you sure you didn't have an engine failure of some sort and the reason it won't turn over is because the engine is now locked up? I would remove the plug on the clutch cover and try to turn the engine over just to verify it is not a seized engine.
Last edited:
few on ebay
rob
xt1200 starter motor for sale | eBay
Find great deals on eBay for xt1200 starter motor. Shop with confidence.
www.ebay.co.uk
rob
Michelada
New Member
Good advice. I’ll try that. Just to clarify… I had ridden 100+ miles, pulled over to send a text, shit the engine, and then the bike wouldn’t restart.
Michelada
New Member
Thanks. I bought one via Amazon / Bruce & Shark for $134. Will arrive next week.
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
Scott123007 brings up a good point, one that I'd missed when I first started reading this thread. Did the engine stop running while you were actually riding it, or did you stop somewhere, shut it off, try and restart it, and it wouldn’t start? What specifically happened when you turned the key that very first time on your way to Running Springs? Saying that an engine won’t turn over can mean different things to different people. Some people use that term interchangeably with “won’t start”, but they also might mean “the engine is physically seized and won’t rotate when I engage the starter”. They’re two radically different issues.
If your bike wouldn't start that day on the way to running springs because a starter relay failed, and you've put a second starter relay into the circuit and that now has a melted fuse, then starter relays aren't the problem, they're a symptom of the problem. Either the new relay had a defect, or else a flaw in the ignition circuit is creating a high enough load to damage two different relays, and that problem started on your way to Running Springs.
"I tried starting it with a jump start battery and didn't get any positive results. Now I think it's the Fuel pump relay because it's clicking very loudly and I no longer hear the fuel pump. Thoughts @RCinNC ?" So where does this problem stand now? Is the fuel pump still not pressurizing? Is the fuel pump relay still clicking? How exactly did you try and jump start the bike?
You performed a function test on the starter motor as per the manual, and found that the motor "kicked". Why do you now think the starter motor is the source of the problem, if the function test said it was good?
Just to clarify, you've replaced the original starter relay with a new one, the new one failed and melted the fuse in place, but a third relay is working as it should? What exactly happens now when you turn the key and then press the starter?
If your bike wouldn't start that day on the way to running springs because a starter relay failed, and you've put a second starter relay into the circuit and that now has a melted fuse, then starter relays aren't the problem, they're a symptom of the problem. Either the new relay had a defect, or else a flaw in the ignition circuit is creating a high enough load to damage two different relays, and that problem started on your way to Running Springs.
"I tried starting it with a jump start battery and didn't get any positive results. Now I think it's the Fuel pump relay because it's clicking very loudly and I no longer hear the fuel pump. Thoughts @RCinNC ?" So where does this problem stand now? Is the fuel pump still not pressurizing? Is the fuel pump relay still clicking? How exactly did you try and jump start the bike?
You performed a function test on the starter motor as per the manual, and found that the motor "kicked". Why do you now think the starter motor is the source of the problem, if the function test said it was good?
Just to clarify, you've replaced the original starter relay with a new one, the new one failed and melted the fuse in place, but a third relay is working as it should? What exactly happens now when you turn the key and then press the starter?
Michelada
New Member
Hello @RCinNC @scott123007 and @Tenman @Cycledude
The engine didn't stop while I was riding it. I stopped on the side of the road, shut it off, sent a text, and it wouldn't restart. I don't think the starter motor engaged when I tried to restart. The instrument cluster definitely turned on, I could hear the fuel pump, but I don't recall hearing the starter motor.
I definitely agree that the starter relay is a symptom of the problem. We tested starter relay #3 and it's definitely performing as intended.
We have not performed a function test on the starter motor. "Checking the Starter Motor" on page 8-149 refers to Troubleshooting step 4. Page 5-50, Checking the starter motor requires the removal of the starter motor. Rather than perform these checks and measurements on a motorcycle with 36,000 miles, I thought it was more prudent to assume the starter motor was no good and spec $134 on a replacement.
But, before I install the new motor that I get next week, I need to put the bike on the kickstand, remove the plug on the clutch cover and confirm the engine hasn't seized. I could use some advice on this procedure.
At the moment, when I turn the key in the ignition, the console lights up, Neutral, Check Engine and ABS lights turn on. I press the start button and I just hear a relay click once. Nothing else happens.
Thanks, Mitch
Attachments
Michelada
New Member
By the way, does anyone know where the Stator Coil coupler is located? Page 8-150 shows how to check it, but I have no idea where it's located. Thanks.
lund
Well-Known Member
Funny, I read through this whole thread yet never read anything worthy of real testing. All I read is try this try that, must be this must be that.
Buddy, do you have a real meter and do you know how to use it?
The starting system is as basic as it gets, especially knowing that it clicks. Start at the battery, VOLTAGE reading, work to the starter solenoid, disconnect power cable to the starter only now. There should be no voltage drop at post battery side, VOLTAGE reading. Check starter side at post of starter solenoid, VOLTAGE reading, key on, start button pushed, starter cable disconnected.
All reading should be same as battery.
Next, check battery voltage at switch wire at solenoid when the start button is pushed.
If all checks, hookup disconnected starter cable to the solenoid and use both a VOLTAGE meter and AMP meter to measure voltage and amp draw on start.
All this shouldn't take more then 15-20min to diagnose.
With out factual numbers, its all guessing.
Buddy, do you have a real meter and do you know how to use it?
The starting system is as basic as it gets, especially knowing that it clicks. Start at the battery, VOLTAGE reading, work to the starter solenoid, disconnect power cable to the starter only now. There should be no voltage drop at post battery side, VOLTAGE reading. Check starter side at post of starter solenoid, VOLTAGE reading, key on, start button pushed, starter cable disconnected.
All reading should be same as battery.
Next, check battery voltage at switch wire at solenoid when the start button is pushed.
If all checks, hookup disconnected starter cable to the solenoid and use both a VOLTAGE meter and AMP meter to measure voltage and amp draw on start.
All this shouldn't take more then 15-20min to diagnose.
With out factual numbers, its all guessing.
Michelada
New Member
@Squibb @RCinNC @bimota @Tenman @Boris Mystery solved. My starter was bad. I was able to remove it and it definitely turned, unattached from the bike. But, it didn't have the power to start the bike. Replaced with a new one and everything is good. I'm also returning the Lithium Ion BikeMaster BMP14-FP battery as it's unable to hold a charge. I've ordered a Yuasa YTZ14S which will arrive on Monday, May 15th, 2023. Check out the picture of the disassembled starter. Nice little pile of carbon. Thanks for everyone's help! Sincerely, Mitch
Attachments
Michelada
New Member
Any chance that the battery malfunctioning damaged the starter? I know, very unlikely, but the only bike that I've known or had that had consistent starter issues was the Beemer RT. In 7 years and 60k miles, I was on my fourth starter.
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
Great to hear you managed to figure out the problem !
Approximately What’s the price for a new Super Tenere starter ?
Approximately What’s the price for a new Super Tenere starter ?
Last edited:
cyclemike4
Well-Known Member
It looks like the armature has been rubbing the magnets on that starter. I have a truck that did the same thing. One thing to keep an eye on for a while is to make sure the starter gear is releasing after the bike starts. If it jams it will take a starter out fast. Just something to think about. I have a old warrior four wheeler that did that but it was easy to hear at start up. Didnt mess up the starter. I got it fixed quick.
Michelada
New Member
@Cycledude it was $134.99 on Amazon. Bruce & Shark New Starter Starter Motor 23P-81890-00 fit for Yamaha XT1200 XT1200Z Super Tenere 2010-2018, XT1200 XT1200ZE Super Tenere ES 2014-2022 https://a.co/d/fr8iB94