PhilPhilippines
Well-Known Member
Hyundai have just completed over 1000km in clinical conditions: downhill, following wind, etc
Lithium-Ion batteries, EVs, and myth busting
- Thread starter Checkswrecks
- Start date
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ballisticexchris
Guest
EV is evolving at an alarming rate. It's a great technology. Unfortunately a person who is buying EV vehicles need to realize they are the biggest polluters of almost any vehicle out there.
How can this be? The manufacturing process of Lithium-ion batteries creates so much wasted energy and pours out so many pollutants that it will take over 50 years of driving a single vehicle to show an environmental benefit.
By that time the batteries are in the landfill and the process starts all over again. EV's are really cool and fun. But just remember you are not saving the environment by buying one.
How can this be? The manufacturing process of Lithium-ion batteries creates so much wasted energy and pours out so many pollutants that it will take over 50 years of driving a single vehicle to show an environmental benefit.
By that time the batteries are in the landfill and the process starts all over again. EV's are really cool and fun. But just remember you are not saving the environment by buying one.
SilverBullet
Well-Known Member
Link? What I've found shows the payback for increased manufacturing pollution to be 18 months or less and improving every year.
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VRODE
Easy Does It
The folks at the top will make money coming...and going.
www.forbes.com
Tesla Cofounder’s Battery Recycling Startup Wins Investment From Amazon Climate Fund
Redwood Materials is among the first companies to win investment from Amazon’s $2 billion venture fund created to back companies with technology contributing to carbon reduction efforts.
www.forbes.com
LJM
Active Member
Wow, I'm gonna have to defer to Hunter S Thompson on this one "There is no such thing as Objective Journalism " but if your truly an objective person my hat's off to you.
Anyway what you like or don't like wasn't and isn't the point, my original post has nothing more to do with politics than your post it's as simple as that.
Dr Ratbagg
Well-Known Member
The 10% tax credit is also limited to a maximum of $2,500. That means you shouldn’t expect an even $3K credit for a $30K Harley-Davidson LiveWire electric motorcycle.[/URL]
Buying an electric motorcycle in 2021 just got cheaper with more US tax credits
As electric motorcycles grow in popularity, American riders can find substantial savings this year in the form of extended tax...electrek.co
They don't have the range most here want and don't have the personality of gas engines, but are great for commuters and you can see the distant future approaching.
Harley should re-label the LiveWire as the SilentBob, because it leaves you speechless when you see the price tag.
That is the Murdock and oil industry myth that gets rolled out annually and it's repeatedly been found to be false for a number of reasons. One is that the full life-cycle to salvage eco impact of an EV is something like a third of ICE vehicles. Part of that is from the EV (corrected) vehicles averaging 40% more efficiency in operation and another part is that manufacturers keep figuring out how to built the things for less cost.
Another is that a significant portion of EV batteries haven't been disposable since the early days 20+ years ago when the oil industry started these myths. These days the batteries are broken down, usable cells get recycled into stationary uses or re-stacked into exchange batteries, shot cells are shredded, and the materials get recycled. The biggest is aluminum which is the most recycled material on Earth.
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ballisticexchris
Guest
Recycling is only as good as the person or company who abides by it. I still think EV vehicle batteries (as well as solar panels) have a long way to go before they are efficient.
JJTJ2
Well-Known Member
Did you mean to say EV vehicles rather than ICE vehicles
R
RonH
Guest
I haven't read too much of the thread, and like my battery power tools a lot, and things are getting better for battery power for sure, but the cost to repair electric vehicals has been beyond rediculous in years passed. I watched youtube videos that showed $6,000.00 to replace the alternator/generator in a Toyota Prius.
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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Don't believe everything you see on Youtube. 
The Prius doesn't use an alternator/generator. It uses a DC/DC converter called an "inverter" A new one has an MSRP of $2530 and a re-man can be had for around $1100 with used ones less than that. Some of the early Prius vehicles had some failures and apparently there were some recalls too. If you let a dealer do everything for you, you're not going to get a reasonable price in many cases. That's true of any major problem on any car.
The Prius doesn't use an alternator/generator. It uses a DC/DC converter called an "inverter" A new one has an MSRP of $2530 and a re-man can be had for around $1100 with used ones less than that. Some of the early Prius vehicles had some failures and apparently there were some recalls too. If you let a dealer do everything for you, you're not going to get a reasonable price in many cases. That's true of any major problem on any car.
Texas losing so much solar with the snow sure shows the downsides of needing the electric grid and need for energy storage.
But then the tanker trucks haven't been doing much better at getting through.
But then the tanker trucks haven't been doing much better at getting through.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
And of course pipelines, which are less affected by weather are being canceled.
Just watched the news during my hour of electricity. It advised that there are what they call "peaker" plants. They cost more to operate, and aren't as efficient, but are used for exactly this situation. For "whatever reason(s)" these plants aren't being brought on line. Sorry, but, this has the stink of politics to me. Not necessarily red or blue, just corrupt politicians.
"Texas" has bragged about their power grid being separate from the rest of the country, and how they have plenty of power. Might be true, if they use the entire grid. The city of Abilene didn't consider their water plants as critical. They shut the power off to the plants. . . . no water for an entire city. WTF.
"Texas" has bragged about their power grid being separate from the rest of the country, and how they have plenty of power. Might be true, if they use the entire grid. The city of Abilene didn't consider their water plants as critical. They shut the power off to the plants. . . . no water for an entire city. WTF.
Eville Rich
Well-Known Member
The Texas electricity market is more open than many. There's competition at the wholesale power level and retail level. What's interesting is that they have an energy -only market and doesn't have a forward capacity market like other regions. This may be a contributor to the challenge, though the Texas grid is very much summer peaking, so it's not clear if that would deal with an unusual winter condition or not.
The frozen wind turbines are a case in point - you can get a cold weather package for utility scale wind turbines. I'm just pretty sure that wasn't an option the developers selected.
I'm not sure why the peaking plants aren't firing up. They are expensive to run but the electricity prices are pretty high right now. I'm not suggesting market manipulation, but if available capacity were being held back to take drive prices up, that would be an issue. That's what got Enron into trouble (well, one thing) in California in the late '90s. They withheld capacity in order to drive up marginal prices and make a killing on the remaining power plants they operated. That's the sort of thing that can only be investigated after the fact. But the energy-only market may also mean power producers aren't willing to take the risk to fire up peaking plants. Though I'm not sure why this isn't the exact opportunity that would call for it. It's all a little odd.
In general, I think the Texas electricity market is pretty good. It's open and allows for a lot of folks to participate. But like many free market issues, it may just not handle things well when we have unusual conditions, such as this storm.
All the more reason to make homes and businesses more energy efficient, facilitate more self generation, and to continue energy storage development.
Eville Rich
The frozen wind turbines are a case in point - you can get a cold weather package for utility scale wind turbines. I'm just pretty sure that wasn't an option the developers selected.
I'm not sure why the peaking plants aren't firing up. They are expensive to run but the electricity prices are pretty high right now. I'm not suggesting market manipulation, but if available capacity were being held back to take drive prices up, that would be an issue. That's what got Enron into trouble (well, one thing) in California in the late '90s. They withheld capacity in order to drive up marginal prices and make a killing on the remaining power plants they operated. That's the sort of thing that can only be investigated after the fact. But the energy-only market may also mean power producers aren't willing to take the risk to fire up peaking plants. Though I'm not sure why this isn't the exact opportunity that would call for it. It's all a little odd.
In general, I think the Texas electricity market is pretty good. It's open and allows for a lot of folks to participate. But like many free market issues, it may just not handle things well when we have unusual conditions, such as this storm.
All the more reason to make homes and businesses more energy efficient, facilitate more self generation, and to continue energy storage development.
Eville Rich
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Evil Rich -
Interesting
Thanks for sharing what sounds like something about the industry you know.
And that sure doesn't have anything to do with the current weather-related problem.
Interesting
Thanks for sharing what sounds like something about the industry you know.
afaik - The only pipeline canceled has been the expansion of Keystone to Keystone XL, which would be just one way for Canada to get their shale oil to port for foreign sales rather than going to their own alternatives.
And that sure doesn't have anything to do with the current weather-related problem.
Eville Rich
Well-Known Member
Yes, I spend my time working in the utility industry. And I had a typo above that I've fixed. The Texas wholesale electricity market is energy-only. That's what makes it different from other competitive wholesale electricity markets. There has been some critique of that approach but I actually like it as it limits the sort of rules-gaming that I think makes other markets quite a bit less competitive. The topic is a little arcane for a motorcycle forum (and many others) so I'll stop my geek-out for now, though it's part of the context for Texas' current challenge.
Eville Rich
Eville Rich
I'm sure that's there's quite a bit that goes into it, but what's chappin' my ass, is that IF "they" used all of their available resources, the present conditions wouldn't be as severe as they are. The power outages are shutting off the water systems. . . . which causes a whole 'nother set of issues. I know that there has to be a lot of frozen/broken water mains now, but we won't know which ones until the thaw. But, THEN, there won't be water, because the breaks have to be fixed. And, it's not like people have piles of money laying around to fix their broken pipes. . . . all because a certain group of people wanted to manipulate the market for personal gain.