ECU reprogram or a AKRO

frez

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I'd like to know what improvements can be gained on an ES for a reflash before I chose.
 

Poohbear

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Strange comparison as the Akra is over 4 times the cost of an ECU flash, but the ECU flash is the most noticeable and most smile-producing mod of the two.
 

LJM

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Those thinking that the re-flashing a 2014 ECU will dramatically change engine performance or ride ability what are you basing this on ?
I started checking into it and didn't find much info. on results from a 2014 re-flash. I called AF-1 and the guy I talked to said they don't even have a dyno run done on a 2014 ? I questioned him a little further and all he could tell me is my bike will run better ???? on my 2014 the throttle response is great, real smooth from just off idle to 7K rpms there isn't any noticable flat spots or surging. So unless that re-flash is giving me some noticable gains in torque and some top end power while keeping the power band linear I can't see any reason for re-flash. Is there any info. or dyno charts out there on a 2014 re-flash ?
Thanks
 

Rasher

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I would want a custom setup on a 2014.

My ECU-U Flash helped my 2011 a lot, but mainly because it removed the restrictions just not present on the 2014, the recent custom setup I had done made a much bigger difference and added about 10BHP on top of the ECU-U Flash and made it noticeably smoother....

...but that was with a few hours on the Dyno getting my bike spot on for fueling and ignition, I doubt an off-the-peg flash would make a massive difference to a 2014 model, a dyno setup almost certainly would - or even a Power Commander if you could not find someone who can do a custom dyno flash.

The silencer will only add a bit of noise, you need to dump the headers to get really big gains.
 

toadady

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membe avc8130 sent me this, he reprograms ECUs

Maps:

Here are what I currently have in the "inventory":

T Mode "Light". This is a fair bit more than stock T mode, but not quite up to full power. Very linear, with a "dulled" response in the lower RPMs that keeps the throttle response very smooth.

T mode "enhanced". This is a straight, 1:1 throttle. This is MORE than stock S mode. The bike works pretty well this way.

S mode "enhanced". This is similar to ET until about 1/4 throttle, then the throttle ramps up to WOT quicker than your wrist. Depending exactly how the person rides, it can be difficult to tell the difference between this and ET.

S mode "enhanced" Gen 2. This map is softer in the lower throttle openings to smooth out the "edge" in SET, but opens up faster as you roll the throttle on to feel more like SS.

SS mode. This mode is similar to SE, but has a sharp jolt around 1/4 throttle and the throttle is a bit more aggressive up to WOT.

SSS mode. This mode is new, I just made it and it is VERY aggressive, especially down low in the rpm/throttle. It is tough to be smooth, but the bike RESPONDS.

Honestly, if someone asked for my "normal", I think T Light + S Enhanced Gen 2 is probably the best combination

Engine braking: On most T modes I usually remove a tad to try to smooth things out. On most S modes I remove more so the bike's suspension isn't upset by down shifts. T mode still has a fair amount of braking, S mode significantly less.
 

Paul466

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I've been on the fence about the flash.Anthony sent me his flash menu.My problem is choosing the combination of engine response and engine braking to suit my mostly off-road Colorado riding style.If too much power I'll be going through tires Ike crazy imo.Also im concerned that bike will become too jerkydown low.would love to loose the restrictions and some engine braking.So I'm stuck not sure what to go with.Any comments/experiences? Any input would be appreciated.
 

toadady

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i haven't flashed mine yet, but i think i would rather get the arrow header and can with a pcV , I feel i'm not that aggressive ridder to need a flash.

so far i use the T mode for gravel/dirt roads. and S mode for playing around town.

I'dd like to hear one on the street with the headers
 

iClint

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Mine has the full Arrow system, no cat and no do killer and it sounds awesome, end of the world kinda awsome and yet at cruising speed/low rpm it's not obnoxiously loud .

There is a bike shop that were farkling up a 2014 S10 with there products, when they dyno'd the S10 with the full arrow system it was producing around 100hp at the wheel which is a massive increase in performance over the stock system.

The design allows for almost completely tool-less removal of the pipes for if you say for example drowned the bike in a puddle that was much deeper than you thought by looking at it.
 

toadady

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iClint said:
Mine has the full Arrow system, no cat and no do killer and it sounds awesome, end of the world kinda awsome and yet at cruising speed/low rpm it's not obnoxiously loud .

There is a bike shop that were farkling up a 2014 S10 with there products, when they dyno'd the S10 with the full arrow system it was producing around 100hp at the wheel which is a massive increase in performance over the stock system.

The design allows for almost completely tool-less removal of the pipes for if you say for example drowned the bike in a puddle that was much deeper than you thought by looking at it.
so did you reflash or just use the Power commander V?
 

jimmy z

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south east wisconsin
Paul466 said:
I've been on the fence about the flash.Anthony sent me his flash menu.My problem is choosing the combination of engine response and engine braking to suit my mostly off-road Colorado riding style.If too much power I'll be going through tires Ike crazy imo.Also im concerned that bike will become too jerkydown low.would love to loose the restrictions and some engine braking.So I'm stuck not sure what to go with.Any comments/experiences? Any input would be appreciated.
I had anthony leave t mode alone and use his sport mode for s mode.You could do that and use t mode off road.Thats what i do, works good for me.Jim
 

fredz43

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iClint said:
Mine has the full Arrow system, no cat and no do killer and it sounds awesome, end of the world kinda awsome and yet at cruising speed/low rpm it's not obnoxiously loud .

There is a bike shop that were farkling up a 2014 S10 with there products, when they dyno'd the S10 with the full arrow system it was producing around 100hp at the wheel which is a massive increase in performance over the stock system.
Motorcycle Consumer News dyno'ed a stock 2014 S10 and got 99.5 HP at the wheel, which was 8.25 more than they measured on a 2012, so it may not be quite as massive as it appears.
 

fredz43

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RonH said:
I think most replys are regarding 2012s. As far as I've read no one has flashed a 2014 and posted. As to the akra, just a way to save 2lbs, and after a couple years 3lbs when it vibrates/rusts apart.
Must be something wrong with my Akra. Almost 4 years and 42,000 miles in use on 2 different S10's and still no rust. I guess it takes titanium a bit longer to do that. ;)
 

summitboy

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So do the 2014s not have the gear restrictions like the 12/13 ? If they do that is the best reason to do a reflash no ? U need 100% throttle in every gear. My 12 is most excellent, but then again it has the ECU, PCV, and a 5lb non rusty Arrow ! LOL
 

frez

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No they don't have restrictions in the lower gears like the earlier model and that was the driving force behind the generic reflashes. Nobody has posted on these boards that they have had their 2014+ S10 reflashed.

There maybe some that have, but either they are not members of this forum or perhaps they don't want to brag about wasted money.

The akro is bling but very nice bling. It's not going to add any significant power or alter the mappings, but it is going to look and sound nice and when you come to sell the bike you can remove it, ebay it, and get back a large chunk of the cash you paid for it.

As far as a generic reflash, you could be the first to get it done and report their findings. Alternatively you could try and find someone that can not just reflash it but do a custom flash with a lot of dyno time to get the bike to be all it can be. Or you could add a power commander on top of the reflash. Until someone does it and reports back we have no idea what the gains might be, but I suspect not as much as you might hope.
 

Rasher

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I am not familiar with stock maps, but AVC can probably work out where mine fit:

T: Mode - low gear restrictions are removed (T-Mode also caps top end power in 1st - 4th on 2010 - 2013 bikes so you only get about 40% power below 5th) so I have full power in T Mode with the same mapping for each gear - this is a very noticeable improvement in T Mode (much needed IMO) but still with a fairly soft throttle response.

S: This is not too far from stock, and similar to one of AVC's modes with an almost exact 1:1 mapping, unfortunately I cannot remember how it felt stock as I mapped over the top of the ECU-U Flash which had a slightly too aggressive S: Mode (OK on fast roads, but awfully twitchy when riding low gear switchbacks) and the rubbish stock T Mode, but I really like this, it is pretty responsive but never jerky - you get exactly what your wrist asks for.

I do also have Arrow headers which added 6BHP to the bike before any mapping, not sure exactly where I am from day one as I have been on 3 dyno's, but the Arrows added some power, the ECU-U Flash was done on a different dyno so I have no real idea if it added anything, but it should of done as CJS admitted the full throttle mapping of the ECU-U Flash was very good.

I have also had the closed loop area re-mapped to target optimal AF (something not all Flash vendors can do - which is why many still recommend power Commander) which will also give improvements in throttle response as this area is very weak (I believe it is anything under about 50% throttle and 5000 rpm) so this would also change how the throttle response feels slightly.

The difference between my ECU-U flash and the Custom dyno setup is quite staggering:



This was same dyno / same day before and after custom setup.

What was interesting is CJS told me even with the Arrow headers the top end of the map had fuel removed compared to the stock map - so in effect stock maps are very rich (and therefore power sapping) but on the plus side your not likely to need to worry about a remap for an end can swap.

If fitting Arrow Headers MAKE SURE you either get a guarantee the flash will fuel them properly at all revs, ECU-U failed to do this so I paid £350 for a less than pefect flash and then £425 to get CJS racing to sort it out properly.

You can also sort the fuelling glitch with a power commander and O2 optimisers, but obviously will need to budget for this.

If keeping stock headers you will have no such problems, any flash will work with regard to removing restrictions and altering throttle maps.
 
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