Dirt_Mom's next bike - F 750 GS, 790, or 950 ??

[Dirt_Dad]

Over the 7 years Dirt_Mom (DM) has been riding a gen 1 and gen 2 Super Tenere she's accomplished quite a bit. She has ridden to the lighthouse at Cape Spear in Newfoundland, done the Top of the World Highway, the Arctic Circle on the Dalton Highway in Alaska, ridden the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado, and multiple rides on the Blueridge Parkway. DM knows how to handle a big bike. But over the years she's also had a couple of spinal surgeries and has had to lay off riding for extended periods of time as a result.

The other day as she was getting on a gravel road for the first time in over a year it was challenging for her to get her confidence back. It did gradually come back, but it got me thinking...she would be so much better off on a bike more appropriately sized for her 5'6" frame. As we get older, it's getting harder and harder to justify why she's on such a big bike. Sure, I've lowered her bike a little more than 2 inches, but there are still a number of basic maneuvers (like turning around, or turning sharply) that require her to have more room to feel comfortable. It's kind of amazing to think in all those years and miles she's dropped it less than 5 times. She is a damn good rider.

Normally when I bring up getting a more appropriately sized bike the first thing she asks me is, "will it have all the safety features of the Tenrere?" In the past I've always said , no. That would be the end of the conversation for her. This time, I extended my thinking into European bikes, and I said, they would have move features. Now she's open to it.

I've always been a "reliability first" kind of guy. Which has had me rule out BMW from the start. KTM never had anything in that size, and I didn't even know about the Multistrada 950.

BMW's new F 750 GS, with a wet weight of less than 500lbs, the lowest seat height and several of the features she can get excited about makes it hard to ignore. However, I've seen so many people around here because they were fed-up with dealing with BMW issues that it makes me gun shy to say the least. It's also the one DM is most interested in due to the lower seat height.

The new KTM 790 Adventure is interesting because of the super low fuel tank that, in theory, should give it a very low center of gravity. That low COG is very appealing. Seat height isn't as low, but depending on the COG, that may or may not be as much of an issue. Plus, it may be capable of being lowered...maybe. At a claimed dry weight of 417, that's sounding ideal. KTM reliability...open question in my mind.

I never knew that much about Ducati. But Checkwrecks told me how reliable his old one was and that holds a lot of weight in my mind. I've always loved the looks of the Multistrada, and I only recently discovered they have a Multistrada 950. At a claimed dry weight of 450 it's clearly in the running.

Yes, all of these would mean going back to a chain drive. I'm not excited about that part, but I figure I can reduce that pain with adding an auto oiler. The one thing I'll not compromise on is tubless tires. I'm not patching tubes under an circumstance.

So, anyone have thoughts on any of these three bikes for this application. I'm pretty sure DM likes the BMW idea the best, but she's not willing to be broken down on the side of the road. Good thing, because neither am I.

 

[TNWalker]

I'm taking delivery this week on a new Moto Guzzi V 85TT. While still not a lightweight it is lighter than the S10 and still maintains a shaft drive, an important feature to me. I have read mostly positive reviews so far from people that are in her height range as easy to manage. This will be the second time I purchase a PDP bike unseen, the first one being my first gen Tenere'. I plan to keep my 2014 S10 in the mix as that has been the best bike I have ever owned. The V 85TT just somehow speaks to me in the same way that the Tenere' did when I first laid eyes on it. I am hopeful that it will be as good as it looks. I'll let you know my impressions after receiving later this week.

Steve

 

[Cycledude]

Of the bikes you listed I would choose the 750 GS, a good friend rides a 800 GS that he bought brandnew and now has 140,000 miles on it, his gas tank is under the seat and I suspect the 750 GS also has the tank under the seat. In 140,000 miles I don’t think he has ever had a flat tire but he does carry a spare tube.
There are only about 3 BMW dealers in the entire state of Wisconsin so I am pretty reluctant to buy one. I am also in the want cruise control, tubeless tires and shaft drive camp.
Well I just looked up the new 750 GS and unfortunately they have moved the fuel tank from under the seat to the same place as the Tenere, to me that seems like a foolish move by BMW.

 

[BaldKnob]

Rock... meet hard place. Really tough to choose from the list you have but the 750GS might be the most sensible (I know, it’s a BMW and that never makes sense). Not sure if it rides on tubeless rims but that’s easily fixed. edit... cast wheels so nevermind.

Is going smaller an option? Kawi Versys 300ABS. Seal the rims and ride it/forget it. I would be very eager to try one if it had the new 400cc engine but that might be a couple years away.

Or, wait for the T7? Have it lowered and fix the rims? Good luck in your and her search.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Is going smaller an option? Kawi Versys 300ABS.

No, that's really not an option. Too many cross country rides that end up out west with 80 MPH speed limits. I think a 650 would be the smallest we'd consider. V-Strom would be a thought, but just too damn top heavy. She had one before and found the Tenere to have a significantly lower perceived weight.

She's leaning hard towards the BMW. Just that reliability question is a big one.

 

[gv550]

Chain drive......... Lots of improvements since the old days, better seals, stronger, longer lasting, better lubes and waxes, dampened sprockets, etc. I let all those things help me justify trading my touring bike for the lighter, nimbler, chain drive Tracer GT and it was a big breath of fresh air after my 900 lb cruiser. All good at first, a few chain adjustments in the first 1000 kms, spray lube every second ride, and just enjoy the great handling and performance. At 5k it started getting a bit noisy so more lube and adjustments, 10k lots of noise accompanied by vibration in the pegs, bathing the chain in varsol to clean then relube, 20k is downright growling and adjusting every week and it really should be replaced even though it's nowhere near the end of the slots. Numerous little blobs of grease and smears on my garage floor where the bike gets parked and a few migrate into the house to stain carpets and mats. At this rate I'll be replacing chain and sprockets 2-3 times a year at $300 plus my labour.
Love the bike but that dam chain, and my insurance company now rating it a sport bike, has me seriously thinking of trading it for something.....anything without a chain drive.

 

[Jlq1969]

keep in mind, that both, Gs 800 and the KTM 790, have a considerable height to the seat. I do not know in ktm, but in the GS, even with the low seat, it is still high and having no link arms in the rear suspension, it becomes difficult to lower it to the necessary, only changing spring

 

[Nikolajsen]

Chain drive......... Lots of improvements since the old days, better seals, stronger, longer lasting, better lubes and waxes, dampened sprockets, etc. I let all those things help me justify trading my touring bike for the lighter, nimbler, chain drive Tracer GT and it was a big breath of fresh air after my 900 lb cruiser. All good at first, a few chain adjustments in the first 1000 kms, spray lube every second ride, and just enjoy the great handling and performance. At 5k it started getting a bit noisy so more lube and adjustments, 10k lots of noise accompanied by vibration in the pegs, bathing the chain in varsol to clean then relube, 20k is downright growling and adjusting every week and it really should be replaced even though it's nowhere near the end of the slots. Numerous little blobs of grease and smears on my garage floor where the bike gets parked and a few migrate into the house to stain carpets and mats. At this rate I'll be replacing chain and sprockets 2-3 times a year at $300 plus my labour.
Love the bike but that dam chain, and my insurance company now rating it a sport bike, has me seriously thinking of trading it for something.....anything without a chain drive.

I don't say you have been riding with the chain to tight, but it really sounds like it..
On my previous Honda Transalp, I could easily make the chain/sprockets last 45.000 km (around 28.000 Mi).
And only adjusting chain, when changing tire... And I never noticed any difference in noise

(D.I.D. 525 "gold" chain)

 

[blitz11]

Over the 7 years Dirt_Mom (DM) has been riding a gen 1 and gen 2 Super Tenere she's accomplished quite a bit. She has ridden to the lighthouse at Cape Spear in Newfoundland, done the Top of the World Highway, the Arctic Circle on the Dalton Highway in Alaska, ridden the Million Dollar Highway in Colorado, and multiple rides on the Blueridge Parkway. DM knows how to handle a big bike. But over the years she's also had a couple of spinal surgeries and has had to lay off riding for extended periods of time as a result.

The other day as she was getting on a gravel road for the first time in over a year it was challenging for her to get her confidence back. It did gradually come back, but it got me thinking...she would be so much better off on a bike more appropriately sized for her 5'6" frame. As we get older, it's getting harder and harder to justify why she's on such a big bike. Sure, I've lowered her bike a little more than 2 inches, but there are still a number of basic maneuvers (like turning around, or turning sharply) that require her to have more room to feel comfortable. It's kind of amazing to think in all those years and miles she's dropped it less than 5 times. She is a damn good rider.

Normally when I bring up getting a more appropriately sized bike the first thing she asks me is, "will it have all the safety features of the Tenrere?" In the past I've always said , no. That would be the end of the conversation for her. This time, I extended my thinking into European bikes, and I said, they would have move features. Now she's open to it.

I've always been a "reliability first" kind of guy. Which has had me rule out BMW from the start. KTM never had anything in that size, and I didn't even know about the Multistrada 950.

BMW's new F 750 GS, with a wet weight of less than 500lbs, the lowest seat height and several of the features she can get excited about makes it hard to ignore. However, I've seen so many people around here because they were fed-up with dealing with BMW issues that it makes me gun shy to say the least. It's also the one DM is most interested in due to the lower seat height.

The new KTM 790 Adventure is interesting because of the super low fuel tank that, in theory, should give it a very low center of gravity. That low COG is very appealing. Seat height isn't as low, but depending on the COG, that may or may not be as much of an issue. Plus, it may be capable of being lowered...maybe. At a claimed dry weight of 417, that's sounding ideal. KTM reliability...open question in my mind.

I never knew that much about Ducati. But Checkwrecks told me how reliable his old one was and that holds a lot of weight in my mind. I've always loved the looks of the Multistrada, and I only recently discovered they have a Multistrada 950. At a claimed dry weight of 450 it's clearly in the running.

Yes, all of these would mean going back to a chain drive. I'm not excited about that part, but I figure I can reduce that pain with adding an auto oiler. The one thing I'll not compromise on is tubless tires. I'm not patching tubes under an circumstance.

So, anyone have thoughts on any of these three bikes for this application. I'm pretty sure DM likes the BMW idea the best, but she's not willing to be broken down on the side of the road. Good thing, because neither am I.

I told my daughter that if she finished her engineering degree in 4 years I would buy her a new motorcycle. She did it, and I honored her request.

She wanted a 790 duke, and so I bought one.

It is absolutely, by FAR, the best motorcycle i have ever ridden. Light, fast, comfortable (i am 6'4", 180#, and it fits me as well as my daughter who is 5'11"), REALLY good stock suspension.

Now, it isn't an adventure, but they aren't that far apart. I have a 690 duke, and my daughters have 200 EXCs. I have NEVER had a problem with any of the bikes. I am really thorough with preventative maintenance, but they have never let me down. KTM has a bad reputation for some reason, but anecdotally, i have never had a problem.

I think you owe it to yourselves to at least go ride one. I can't stop smiling when I ride that 790. It is really brilliant.

When I made my offer, my daughter said, "i can take the 690, and you can have the 790."

I asked her after she rode the 790 if she wanted to trade. "No way!"

 

[EricV]

You & DM have a tough choice. First, there is very little "new" about the BMW F750GS. It's the same bike they keep re-naming that started as the F650GS twin, then became the F700 twin, now is the F750 twin because some marketing genius decided that sounded better with the new R1250GS/A bikes.

So, my wife put 115k on a 2011 F650GS. These engines are a Rotax design, tweaked by BMW to their specs. They are known for water pump failures, stator failures, (most fixed after a flywheel re-design around ~2014/5 that gave more oil passages to the stator), and a host of other cooling issues. Overflow tank is poorly designed and will spray coolant up and over onto the rider when it over heats due to no coolant overflow hose. Our transmission needed to be re-built at 35k miles due to gears galling. Poor/incorrect heat treat of the gears. Eventually we suffered the water pump failure, AFTER complaining about over heating issues and getting no effort or fix from the dealer for months. The motor burned up and the local, (100 miles away from home), BMW dealer had to build us a new motor from parts because no crate engines were in the system. That motor was much, much better than the original one and gave us no further problems.

When the wife sold the F650GS she replaced it with a R1200GSA low suspension, low seat model. She rides the bigger bike much, much better than the F650GS. It's more confidence inspiring for her, has more power, better brakes, allows her to flat foot the bike, (she's 5'4" 145 lbs), and it simply has better geometry and handling by far.

The F series bikes are feature rich, fun bikes to ride. But I would suggest you never own one past the 36k mile warranty period. BMW does not sell extended warranties for a reason. And I'd have her ride a GS Low suspension before you pulled the trigger on a F750.

I would also suggest she ride a G310GS. I know, but you may find it surprising and the buy in is a lot lower. It will do freeway speeds all day from what I've been told. It's no 1200 though and that's just reality.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Interesting read, Eric. I've been wanting to get your take on this since I know you've done the BMW thing for a while now. I

I do believe the engine is a clean sheet redesign. I do know it's manufactured in China and they had to recall the entire first batch of bikes due to oil supply issues. Not sure the redesign is a benefit or not. It's been out there less than a year so reports of issues have not started yet...at least not that I've found. The whole BMW reliability issue is definitely on my mind.

Interesting that your wife finds the lowered GSA more confidence inspiring. DIdn't you once lower a Tenere for her? If so, I guess she still thought the GSA was better. Also, didn't I recently read she had her GSA in the shop for something?

DM can flat foot her lowered Tenere. Regardless of any suggestions from me, she has no tolerance for parking lot practice. This contributes to a general low speed maneuvering unease at times. It's important for me to find her a suitable stopping place, and give thought to an area where she's going to park. It's not uncommon for her to jump off her bike and have me do the final placement or some repositioning of the bike. I suspect going to another heavy bike like the GSA would not change the result. The aim of this change would be to get her on a bike she can "man-handle." Not to the level she throws around her XT250, but with less effort and concern that she has with her 600+lb bike.

That 310GS does look interesting, but DM has already told me not to even think for a second that she'd ride a screaming thumper at 85MPH through Wyoming.

 

[EricV]

Yes, I did lower the S10 for her to try. She loved the engine and brakes, but some of the ergos didn't work for her. I suspect the Koolaid was a little strong as well.

And yes, the GSA was recently in the shop at 39k miles for a ABS pump failure. New pump, new rear caliper, new rotor, rotor bolts, brake pads. The Aftermarket warranty paid for all but the pads and bolts. (wear items). Would have been about $4k parts and labor w/o the warranty.

I'm more on DM's side with the thumper, but still think the G310 is worth a test ride, if only to solidly rule it out. My wife will need to ride one soon to either rule that out or decide she needs one to trailer around to places we want to ride. I'd rather go with a pair of Groms if we're going to trailer to places to explore.

Me wife is the same on the parking lot practice. She'll ride around the building instead of do a U-turn sometimes. It's a little frustrating at times for me. It's better with the GSA, but like DM, I have to find a "suitable" spot for pulling off for a break or a stopping place, then like you, I may be valeting the bike around prior to her departure.

We're really considering driving places with a pair of small bikes on a trailer and then park and ride around to explore. It would be a different level of riding for sure. But with many advantages. A/C, creature comforts, no helmets while traveling in the rain, etc. Then at the hotel, off load the little bikes and go explore, etc.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Must be the natural progression of things. DM is frequently trying to talk me into the trailering thing. I'm not dead set against it. Just the Teneres don't fit in her Ridgeline, and our trailer is too small as well. Don't think I could do the Grom thing. I'm awfully comfortable on my Tenere. That would be a pretty big leap.

Is the same aftermarket warranty available on the full line of BMWs?

 

[EricV]

We rode 150cc scooters around Egypt. 2500 miles in 9 days or so. Her first time on a scooter, but I'd been on them before. It's different, but a lot of fun to have so little bike to move around. They don't do the same things as a full size motorcycle, but that's sort of the point. You don't need 1200cc to poke around the fun roads local to where ever you trailered to. You're not getting that moto cross country vibe, that's for sure, but you don't have to carry all the crap on the bikes either. Still capable of 60 mph so no limits on roads except interstate. I bought a 150cc for commuting and running errands in St George. Guilty pleasure in just grabbing the 3/4 helmet and gloves and skipping all the rest of the gear. For an ATGATT guy for the last several decades, it's a change of pace.

The wife has also made some noise about buying a couple of CRF250s or XT250s for trailering to places. That and the G310, which I'd personally rather not go with for trailering. The 250s are sub 300 lbs each wet, the G310GS is 350 lbs wet. both are EFI and about $5k each. Older 250s are still EFI back to 2013 or so. Thing is, all of those have tall seat heights, which is an issue for her. Half the weight of the big bikes, but still a work out if you drop it.

Groms are only 230 lbs, but only 55 mph too, unless you mod them. Scooters will do 60-70+ depending on what size and model. The 10" wheel versions usually top out around 60, but the 12" or 14" wheel versions often will do freeway speeds with out more displacement or significant bump up in weight.

 

[VRODE]

CB500X with a few Rally Raid options? Not sure about seat height, but the weight and reliability would be a plus.

 

[EricV]

CB500X with a few Rally Raid options? Not sure about seat height, but the weight and reliability would be a plus.

I had forgotten about that bike. Worth investigating. Not super tall, lighter weight, Honda reliability. The NC700s are still floating around out there too.

 

[Cycledude]

Have her try a NC700 with DCT

 

[Don T]

Between the 3 bikes listed I would without a doubt go for the 790 Adventure.
- it has all the electronic aids you could ever wish for.
- It's the lightest (and feel even lighter because of the low COG).
- With the low seat option, it feels really low (also due to a slim waist).

Several of my friends ride BMW, Ducati and KTM. The owners of the later experience fewer reliability issues than the owners of the other two - but non of the brands deliver Japanese reliability.

If seat height wasn't an issue I wouldn't buy anything until I had taken a 700 Ténéré for a test ride.

I know it's a smaller displacement bike than she had in mind, but I recommend that she takes a 2019 CB500X for a spin - it's a brilliant and very competent bike.

Much have happened with chains during the 30 years I've been riding. Today they are so good, that it really isn't an issue any more.
If you keep it well lubed (a Scottoiler or similar is a good option), you can expect a quality chain to easily last 20-30.000 miles and only need adjusting at service interval or when changing tire.
I prefer shaft but would never rule out an otherwise great bike because it use a chain.

Good luck with finding the right bike for DM

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Good input, guys.

Unfortunately all those smaller Hondas have nothing more that ABS. Her first question is always about having at least as many safety features as the Tenere.

That's probably all my fault. I stressed the safety stuff before ordering my gen 1 Tenere. That along with watching me total my Tenere while staying up and coasting to the side of the road, has resulted in her wanting every rider aid made. Smaller Japanese bikes don't get that stuff.

I added the Tiger 800 to the list today.

The weight, cog, and perceived better reliability of the KTM make it the leader in my head. I'm just doubting I'll find one for her to sit on. Can't imagine they will just be sitting around in dealerships.

 

[EricV]

Just say no to the Triumph. A large percentage of the former Triumph owners I know all sold the bikes because the lived in the shop more than their BMWs did. Usually waiting on parts. Again, neat bike, just a lack of dealer network, dealer support & parts availability.

Safety features? I get ABS as a safety feature, (I'm a big fan). But what other 'safety features' are we talking about?

TCS is not a safety feature, it's a rider aid. A little wrist management and you have effective traction control. It's not that hard.

Cruise? I love it, but it's not a safety feature and can be added to any bike now days. Rostra or $$$$McCruise.

What am I missing? 90% of the features on the wife's GSA never get used. I personally find the "wonder wheel" a royal pain in the butt. It's in the way and I tend to find it doing things it didn't need to do.