Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Attack the argument, not the individual.
Attack the argument, not the individual.
The Darkside.......
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Andylaser
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Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Although, I would still prefer a bike tyre on a bike that isnt so fat.
AgreedRonH said:
For 1000 miles of straight road, in hot weather and on a fat arsed bike, I can see the logic in this.RonH said:
Although, I would still prefer a bike tyre on a bike that isnt so fat.
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
The way many if not most people use their Teneres and DLs, the CT would actually be a very viable compromise tire. Again, if you regularly run BattleWings and use your DL or Tenere most of the time for corner straffing, regularly dragging the pegs every weekend, CT would be no good for you. If you regularly run TKCs and hit fairly rough two track every weekend,,, again, CT no good for you. If however, you rarely drag a peg, rarely ride rutted, rocky two track and you regularly slam down the miles, the CT would be worth looking at. If you are riding your DL or Tenere up to Prudhoe Bay, over to Newfoundland and back down into Mexico or some other rather long trip that requires/needs/could use a tire that lasts two to three times what most MTs would, works pretty well, if not great on most dirt roads, much more resistant to punctures and has a load rating that will shrug off a fully loaded Tenere even two up,,,,, there isn't a MT that will come close. A Shinko 705 matched with a CT out back would be a 15-20K mile combo and would perfect for that scenario thereby making it the perfect choice for a Tenere in that application.
The way many if not most people use their Teneres and DLs, the CT would actually be a very viable compromise tire. Again, if you regularly run BattleWings and use your DL or Tenere most of the time for corner straffing, regularly dragging the pegs every weekend, CT would be no good for you. If you regularly run TKCs and hit fairly rough two track every weekend,,, again, CT no good for you. If however, you rarely drag a peg, rarely ride rutted, rocky two track and you regularly slam down the miles, the CT would be worth looking at. If you are riding your DL or Tenere up to Prudhoe Bay, over to Newfoundland and back down into Mexico or some other rather long trip that requires/needs/could use a tire that lasts two to three times what most MTs would, works pretty well, if not great on most dirt roads, much more resistant to punctures and has a load rating that will shrug off a fully loaded Tenere even two up,,,,, there isn't a MT that will come close. A Shinko 705 matched with a CT out back would be a 15-20K mile combo and would perfect for that scenario thereby making it the perfect choice for a Tenere in that application.
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Traction wise, no contest,,,,, the CT offered traction, a lot more, than the K60 in pretty much every situation except most off tarmac situations. I say "most" because the CT had roughly the same/maybe more traction in the sand and decidedly more traction on typical hard packed/maintained dirt roads like your run of the mill forestry service road. On tarmac there is no comparison, the CT beat the K60 when dry, when wet, when cornering, under acceleration and when braking. Matter of fact, I think the K60 is right up there with the ME880 and "shittiest tire ever for playing in the twisties". The only situation where I would ever be tempted to run a K60 again would be on a trip to Alaska or the like where you would be needing a high mileage tire that also worked OK off tarmac, especially muddyish conditions. Even then, I would rather run a E07 or a CT.
Handling comparison is a moot point since the K60's lack of traction on tarmac would put the damper on the festivities well before the CT's handling deficit showed up. If you regularly run K60s and you are worried about a CT's traction on tarmac,,,,,,,, don't. ::024::
I know this is old as hell but I finally got around to running a K60 on my S10. I got maybe 8K miles if memory serves while commuting, local playing on and off tarmac and one smallish trip {maybe 2K miles} so the CT which I beat on a lot harder lasted considerably longer. The CT was on a DL650 so not apples to apples but I know how I treated that CT on my DL650 and I will tell you right now, I treated it a lot worse/beat on it a lot harder than the K60 on the Tenere.dcstrom said:
Traction wise, no contest,,,,, the CT offered traction, a lot more, than the K60 in pretty much every situation except most off tarmac situations. I say "most" because the CT had roughly the same/maybe more traction in the sand and decidedly more traction on typical hard packed/maintained dirt roads like your run of the mill forestry service road. On tarmac there is no comparison, the CT beat the K60 when dry, when wet, when cornering, under acceleration and when braking. Matter of fact, I think the K60 is right up there with the ME880 and "shittiest tire ever for playing in the twisties". The only situation where I would ever be tempted to run a K60 again would be on a trip to Alaska or the like where you would be needing a high mileage tire that also worked OK off tarmac, especially muddyish conditions. Even then, I would rather run a E07 or a CT.
Handling comparison is a moot point since the K60's lack of traction on tarmac would put the damper on the festivities well before the CT's handling deficit showed up. If you regularly run K60s and you are worried about a CT's traction on tarmac,,,,,,,, don't. ::024::
Ramseybella
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
CT's is an acquired taste my friend has them on his 2013 GW I took it for a ride and was impressed with the handling on such a large bike. The Gold Wing is a magnificent motorcycle but it's built for smaller folks as I am 6'3" and felt like my knees where to close to my ears, didn't feel as tall as my old GL 1100.. So I wouldn't spoon a CT on my Ten as I have a 21" on the front don't know how wonky that would feel.
Not that I would run CT's on my Tenere but I have had two sets of rear K60 rubbers on and if I could get at least 8k on them i may have kept buying them.Judd said:
CT's is an acquired taste my friend has them on his 2013 GW I took it for a ride and was impressed with the handling on such a large bike. The Gold Wing is a magnificent motorcycle but it's built for smaller folks as I am 6'3" and felt like my knees where to close to my ears, didn't feel as tall as my old GL 1100.. So I wouldn't spoon a CT on my Ten as I have a 21" on the front don't know how wonky that would feel.
Nikolajsen
"Keep it simple"
Re: darkside / car tire ????
I did read it all, but I might have missed something, or misunderstod it....sorry...I have one question
Why?
I did read it all, but I might have missed something, or misunderstod it....sorry...I have one question
Why?
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
Re: darkside / car tire ????
I'm not impressed , for general riding a dangerous tire set up.... when the insurance checks your wrecked bike wonder if they might have an issue non DOT approved tires mounted on bike.... three wheelers and other machines that don't lean to turn can use a rear tire like that but a motorcycle , this thing started with the Goldwing crowd . wonder how many have crashed out with this set up .... and just because a few get away with this doesn't make this safe....
I'm not impressed , for general riding a dangerous tire set up.... when the insurance checks your wrecked bike wonder if they might have an issue non DOT approved tires mounted on bike.... three wheelers and other machines that don't lean to turn can use a rear tire like that but a motorcycle , this thing started with the Goldwing crowd . wonder how many have crashed out with this set up .... and just because a few get away with this doesn't make this safe....
Don in Lodi
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Re: Re: darkside / car tire ????
You do realize how the 'net works, if even one bad thing happens anywhere with any given idea, you know it would have blown up into hundreds of bad things happening all over the place. You'd think by now somebody somewhere would have had a fiend of a friend's cousin's brother-in-law wreck his darky bike, it hasn't happened that I've heard. The Feds and the Nanny Police would have been all mixed up in it. Been aware of the dark side since forever. Car tires have been used on bikes since bikes got motors. A few get away with it? Thousands and thousands... Take a breath, nobody is likely to die just from it. And if an adjuster actually recognizes the tire for what it is after that deer strike, they might very well have an issue if they have a concern with some sort of failure to perform. ::001::
Madhatter said:
You do realize how the 'net works, if even one bad thing happens anywhere with any given idea, you know it would have blown up into hundreds of bad things happening all over the place. You'd think by now somebody somewhere would have had a fiend of a friend's cousin's brother-in-law wreck his darky bike, it hasn't happened that I've heard. The Feds and the Nanny Police would have been all mixed up in it. Been aware of the dark side since forever. Car tires have been used on bikes since bikes got motors. A few get away with it? Thousands and thousands... Take a breath, nobody is likely to die just from it. And if an adjuster actually recognizes the tire for what it is after that deer strike, they might very well have an issue if they have a concern with some sort of failure to perform. ::001::
EricV
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Re: Re: darkside / car tire ????
As someone that has actually ridden CT equipped motorcycles for ~70k miles, I can tell you that just like with moto tires on motorcycles and car tires on cars, every tire has it's own characteristics. Some CTs are better suited to motorcycle use than others. At the end of the day, it's different, but not as different as most believe.
No one is trying to impress you. I'm sure if others looked at your bike they would find things not to their taste as well. We are in charge of our own lives and do what we want. No reason to throw stones at someone else's choice to explore something you personally are not comfortable trying.
If you believe it's unsafe, you are not experienced with this set up. And the number of Goldwing riders that have crashed due to the car tire? ZERO. The number of FJR riders using car tires is over 100 and they have traveled well over two million miles w/o a single incident of any kind.
It's not for everyone. No one is suggesting it is. Some day if you get an opportunity, take a ride on a CT equipped motorcycle. It will at least give you some idea of what it feels like. The learning curve can be 500-1000 miles for some, and the end of the block for others. There is some different muscle memory required on some bikes. A good CT is very motorcycle like and requires very little adjustment. In most cases, better traction in loose and wet conditions and much longer tread life are experienced. Depending on the bike and tire, some following of ruts is more noticeable. Can be a handful off pavement in deep ruts. I could go on, because I've actually done this and know first hand. No need to here. I look forward to sallydog's first hand reports of HIS experiences.
You're funny! You have no direct experience with this stuff, so leave it alone or try it yourself and learn first hand. Apparently you have never talked to an insurance investigator either. The tire is DOT approved, which doesn't really mean anything. Round and black with some tread is about as far as any insurance person will look for. And an investigator won't be looking, or care, about the tires if that isn't a direct aspect of the incident. And really? Started with the Goldwing crowd? You are not well informed. This has been done as long as motorcycles have existed. HDs were running car tires back in the 50's and 60's routinely. Before that, motorcycle tires were essentially the same as car tires in design, just narrower. Many a flat tread design for motorcycles existed long ago.Madhatter said:
As someone that has actually ridden CT equipped motorcycles for ~70k miles, I can tell you that just like with moto tires on motorcycles and car tires on cars, every tire has it's own characteristics. Some CTs are better suited to motorcycle use than others. At the end of the day, it's different, but not as different as most believe.
No one is trying to impress you. I'm sure if others looked at your bike they would find things not to their taste as well. We are in charge of our own lives and do what we want. No reason to throw stones at someone else's choice to explore something you personally are not comfortable trying.
If you believe it's unsafe, you are not experienced with this set up. And the number of Goldwing riders that have crashed due to the car tire? ZERO. The number of FJR riders using car tires is over 100 and they have traveled well over two million miles w/o a single incident of any kind.
It's not for everyone. No one is suggesting it is. Some day if you get an opportunity, take a ride on a CT equipped motorcycle. It will at least give you some idea of what it feels like. The learning curve can be 500-1000 miles for some, and the end of the block for others. There is some different muscle memory required on some bikes. A good CT is very motorcycle like and requires very little adjustment. In most cases, better traction in loose and wet conditions and much longer tread life are experienced. Depending on the bike and tire, some following of ruts is more noticeable. Can be a handful off pavement in deep ruts. I could go on, because I've actually done this and know first hand. No need to here. I look forward to sallydog's first hand reports of HIS experiences.
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Madhatter, Don, and Eric -
No sweat in you guys having your opinion and debate - I just split them off the thread of actual car tire experiences to be here in the thread debating such stuff.
Carry on gents
Madhatter, Don, and Eric -
No sweat in you guys having your opinion and debate - I just split them off the thread of actual car tire experiences to be here in the thread debating such stuff.
Carry on gents
EricV
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Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Not a problem, better suited here. Working to keep it civil and about the topic, not the individuals.
I put up with a lot of ignorance on the FJR when I did this there. Several of the most strident opponents are now CT users and vocal proponents. Ignorance is a correctable condition. Just a lack of knowledge on a subject.
Not a problem, better suited here. Working to keep it civil and about the topic, not the individuals.
I put up with a lot of ignorance on the FJR when I did this there. Several of the most strident opponents are now CT users and vocal proponents. Ignorance is a correctable condition. Just a lack of knowledge on a subject.
OX-34
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Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
This pic is of my Valkyrie rear tyre.
It is one of those stupid Metzelers with no sipes crossing the midline so consequently zero warning before the metal peeks out though the rubber. There is a wear bar visible in the groove on the right completely intact.
I reckon I would have been much better off with a car tyre.
One day I'll man up and take Eric's advice to just try a ride or two over on the Darkside.
This pic is of my Valkyrie rear tyre.
It is one of those stupid Metzelers with no sipes crossing the midline so consequently zero warning before the metal peeks out though the rubber. There is a wear bar visible in the groove on the right completely intact.
I reckon I would have been much better off with a car tyre.
One day I'll man up and take Eric's advice to just try a ride or two over on the Darkside.
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
ericv, whats that coolaid flavor? so , I guess I'm impressed that in all of America you know that not one single bike with a car tire has never crashed..... now that's impressive.... before things get hot , I believe in personal freedom, and as long as it doesn't effect me I don't have a problem with anyone modifying there bike or car or anything that suits their what ever... so if car tires on bikes are so great why stop at back tire , put one on the front.... ericv , you have the right do to that , I have the right to say that's dangerous... and I'm not your enemy , I put car tires on cars, truck tires on trucks ,motorcycle tires on ,wait for it, motorcycles..... its what I do.
ericv, whats that coolaid flavor? so , I guess I'm impressed that in all of America you know that not one single bike with a car tire has never crashed..... now that's impressive.... before things get hot , I believe in personal freedom, and as long as it doesn't effect me I don't have a problem with anyone modifying there bike or car or anything that suits their what ever... so if car tires on bikes are so great why stop at back tire , put one on the front.... ericv , you have the right do to that , I have the right to say that's dangerous... and I'm not your enemy , I put car tires on cars, truck tires on trucks ,motorcycle tires on ,wait for it, motorcycles..... its what I do.
EricV
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Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Madhatter, you aren't comprehending what's being written. I did not say no one has crashed. No wing riders have crash because of CTs and no FJR riders have crashed because of CTs. I know of two incidents related to CT use, both on cruisers. (extreme low pressure in the tire, which would have caused an incident for any tire) If you bothered to look around the web, you'd find out this is a lot more common, CT use on bikes, than you believe it to be.
Instead of just tossing out silly comments, why not educate yourself a little. It's not for everyone and no one is saying it's the best practice for your needs. But it's not unsafe either. And it works just fine for many and meets their needs.
What you need to remember is there are two types of people in this conversation. Those with direct, first hand experience, and those with no experience. Do you really think the people with no experience are going to have valid information and opinions based upon factual evidence?
Madhatter, you aren't comprehending what's being written. I did not say no one has crashed. No wing riders have crash because of CTs and no FJR riders have crashed because of CTs. I know of two incidents related to CT use, both on cruisers. (extreme low pressure in the tire, which would have caused an incident for any tire) If you bothered to look around the web, you'd find out this is a lot more common, CT use on bikes, than you believe it to be.
Instead of just tossing out silly comments, why not educate yourself a little. It's not for everyone and no one is saying it's the best practice for your needs. But it's not unsafe either. And it works just fine for many and meets their needs.
What you need to remember is there are two types of people in this conversation. Those with direct, first hand experience, and those with no experience. Do you really think the people with no experience are going to have valid information and opinions based upon factual evidence?
Re: Re: darkside / car tire ????
We built a lot of Choppers back in the 70's with car tires on the rear and one of the first things we learned was to not put a 15" car tire on a 15" MC rim. 16" & 17" car and MC rims are almost exactly the same diameter, but a 15" MC rim is quite a bit bigger than a 15" car rim. I have mounted a few 15" car tires for riders in the past few years (after warning them about the difference), but I refused to seat the bead. I told them they will have to take it somewhere else to put air in it. Most of them end up busting the tubes before the tire pops on the rim or they just give up and put on a MC tire.ace50 said:
Madhatter
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Ericv, your statement that no Goldwing or fjr have had no ct failures is odd , America is a pretty big place you can not possible no whats happening with every rider of said bikes in America . ive done a google search and once you get through all the darkside propaganda you can find more than one example of crashes caused by ct..... one thing I have learned is you darksiders are very passionate about it and I don't have a problem with that.... but motorcycles work best as designed and that means proper m/c tires.... if you pass me on the highway with a ct mounted to your machine , I will just give you a wave....its your right to do what you think is best for you and the same for all the other darksiders out there... I see the attraction to such a set up, cost less and well, that's it, cost less than a proper m/c tire.... the big heavy bikes eat a lot of rubber , so I can see some dude thinking , man these tires just don't last wonder if that car tire will last longer.... where did I put those tire irons? had to start some where , kinda in the same theme as , hey dude hold my beer..... when our key boards cool down about this topic , it might or might not , I hold no grudges because someone disagrees with me or I disagree with them .... its a debate on ideas , the darksiders think they are correct and the ( lets give us a name ) riders of the light, feel we are correct..... every owners manual of every two wheeled m/c specifies the use of motorcycle tires , and that is from every m/c manufacturer that has ever been on planet earth.... are they correct , you darksiders say they are not ,millions of dollars spent on engineering degrees and over a hundred years of m/c manufacturing doesn't count for much .... they should try them on moto gp bikes , might last the whole weekend without needing a change.... and as far as no experience in this matter, what does anyone on this forum know about my experience with anything , and especially about tires , or driving or even life..... I enjoy this forum and I enjoy this debate , I even learn things at times ...... my wife might disagree .... I will close with this, that a car tire mounted on your bike works for you , that's a very good thing......
Ericv, your statement that no Goldwing or fjr have had no ct failures is odd , America is a pretty big place you can not possible no whats happening with every rider of said bikes in America . ive done a google search and once you get through all the darkside propaganda you can find more than one example of crashes caused by ct..... one thing I have learned is you darksiders are very passionate about it and I don't have a problem with that.... but motorcycles work best as designed and that means proper m/c tires.... if you pass me on the highway with a ct mounted to your machine , I will just give you a wave....its your right to do what you think is best for you and the same for all the other darksiders out there... I see the attraction to such a set up, cost less and well, that's it, cost less than a proper m/c tire.... the big heavy bikes eat a lot of rubber , so I can see some dude thinking , man these tires just don't last wonder if that car tire will last longer.... where did I put those tire irons? had to start some where , kinda in the same theme as , hey dude hold my beer..... when our key boards cool down about this topic , it might or might not , I hold no grudges because someone disagrees with me or I disagree with them .... its a debate on ideas , the darksiders think they are correct and the ( lets give us a name ) riders of the light, feel we are correct..... every owners manual of every two wheeled m/c specifies the use of motorcycle tires , and that is from every m/c manufacturer that has ever been on planet earth.... are they correct , you darksiders say they are not ,millions of dollars spent on engineering degrees and over a hundred years of m/c manufacturing doesn't count for much .... they should try them on moto gp bikes , might last the whole weekend without needing a change.... and as far as no experience in this matter, what does anyone on this forum know about my experience with anything , and especially about tires , or driving or even life..... I enjoy this forum and I enjoy this debate , I even learn things at times ...... my wife might disagree .... I will close with this, that a car tire mounted on your bike works for you , that's a very good thing......
Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Just because it's what I do I' suggest changing
"...more than one example of crashes caused by ct..."
to
"...more than one example of crashes with bikes having a ct..."
Because attributing an accident to a cause is a big step.
For example, YellowWolf crashed with a CT on his Goldwing but he and the guys he was with attributed the accident to sand.
Just because it's what I do I' suggest changing
"...more than one example of crashes caused by ct..."
to
"...more than one example of crashes with bikes having a ct..."
Because attributing an accident to a cause is a big step.
For example, YellowWolf crashed with a CT on his Goldwing but he and the guys he was with attributed the accident to sand.
R
RonH
Guest
I don't know about a car tire on a Super Tenere, but have run one on the Goldwing for many years. The rapid wear of the rear tire on a Goldwing is rediculous on some tires, not so much on others, but the main reason I run one is a car tire is just cruising along on the Goldwing and no fear of overheating and blowout. The car tire has a load rating of somewhere around 1200lb, the motorcycle tire somewhere around 700. Get two people and full luggage on a GL1800 you are darn close to, if not over the load rating of the tire. At the least this causes heat and rapid wear, and much worse can happen. The car tire eliminated my fear of blowouts from heat and overload. Sure a car tire can blowout as well, but in the GL1800 at least, the odds are much better getting rid of the motorcycle tire and opting to go the car tire.
As mentioned, they handle a little different. The car tire requires more lean to turn vs a motorcycle tire. If I was riding to be a roadracer type I would not go car tire, but for straight line there is a huge advantage to going the car tire.
As mentioned, they handle a little different. The car tire requires more lean to turn vs a motorcycle tire. If I was riding to be a roadracer type I would not go car tire, but for straight line there is a huge advantage to going the car tire.
EricV
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Re: Car Tires - What people think are the negatives or want to debate
Tell us what you are believe the CT will do that will 'cause a crash'. Because just about everything you come up with will be a false supposition. You believe it to be true, but have no data to back it up.
I also know that tires used to last 25k on motorcycles and now you're lucky to get 10k miles. Some of this is bias ply Vs radial, but you can't tell me that the tire manufacturers can't still make a tire that lasts, they just have everyone convinced that they need to spend $200-300 for a new tire a lot sooner. For Safety, don't ya know? :
I chose to go down this road with my eyes open. I had previously ridden HDs with CTs on the back in the '80s and it was nothing new to me. Just a new application.
If you searched, you should have found this thread on the FJR forum - http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/141913-going-to-the-dark-side/
I am OCfjr there, and started that thread. It used to be the single longest thread with the most views on that forum. If you notice the date, I started that experiment in 2008. I have a decade of experience riding and communicating with others that are Darksiding. Helping, asking questions, answering a lot of questions and posting a lot of direct info. My opinions on Darksiding are based upon my actual experience and the direct experience of others I personally know and in many cases have ridden with. I started the experiment because I was riding 40k miles a year and the tires I was buying that lasted a consistent 12k miles disappeared from the market, leaving me with tires that often barely lasted 6k miles. It was a simple matter of ride less, pay more for tires, more often. Or try something different and ride more, spend less on tires. I have worn out a set of moto tires in 12 days with over 14k miles on them and dangerously into the cords when I got home. Running the CT meant I never had to worry about running out of tire before my ride was done.
What are your opinions based upon?
You didn't do your research. If you're going to state over a hundred years of m/c manufacturers, you might want to go look at tires for motorcycles a hundred years ago. And show me an engineer, I'll show you someone that is hindered by the marketing dept and stymied by the publication guys and more often than I'd like, needs the laws of physics explained to them. I've worked with a lot of engineers too, working for OEMs. There are a lot of compromises and design aspects that have nothing to do with making the product better or safer, just making it cheaper to produce or 'look different' from the other OEM's product.
Instead, if you see something you feel is odd, unsafe or wrong or just don't understand, ASK QUESTIONS! Enter into a discussion. Why are you doing that? What gain do you believe you will get. What made you consider doing that?
You may learn more. You may even convince someone that what ever it is that caused you to ask questions is not the best thing for them. But only if you can give a sound and supported argument based on facts and first hand experience.
Actually, I've done quite a lot more research than you ever will on this topic. I've spoken to family members of two riders that died in crashes, that happened to be riding on CTs at the time. One was multi-vehicle and the CT had no part of the crash. The other was tire related, but the rider had only minutes before the crash told other riders he dropped his tire pressure to 5 psi. It wasn't the tire that caused the accident. It was the extreme low pressure that led to the tire coming partially off the wheel.Madhatter said:
But not crashes directly attributed to the CT. People crash all the time. Some blame the bike or the stuff they bolted to the bike. A very high percentage are rider error. After that, often it's conditions and animals.
Tell us what you are believe the CT will do that will 'cause a crash'. Because just about everything you come up with will be a false supposition. You believe it to be true, but have no data to back it up.
You're missing the point. So what? My needs when I did this were not the specific design parameters of the group of engineers that designed the bike. I knew that. I also knew that I wasn't trying to go as fast as possible around corners or riding the bike at 100% of it's capabilities. There is a huge margin of error if you ride reasonably on public roads. I was looking to improve a specific facet of my riding needs and was prepared to accept some limitations. If you read the thread I started, you'll also see that I was fully prepared to say it was a failure too. I had no need to prove it worked. I wanted to see if it would and the only way to do that was to actually try it myself.
I also know that tires used to last 25k on motorcycles and now you're lucky to get 10k miles. Some of this is bias ply Vs radial, but you can't tell me that the tire manufacturers can't still make a tire that lasts, they just have everyone convinced that they need to spend $200-300 for a new tire a lot sooner. For Safety, don't ya know? :
I chose to go down this road with my eyes open. I had previously ridden HDs with CTs on the back in the '80s and it was nothing new to me. Just a new application.
If you searched, you should have found this thread on the FJR forum - http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/141913-going-to-the-dark-side/
I am OCfjr there, and started that thread. It used to be the single longest thread with the most views on that forum. If you notice the date, I started that experiment in 2008. I have a decade of experience riding and communicating with others that are Darksiding. Helping, asking questions, answering a lot of questions and posting a lot of direct info. My opinions on Darksiding are based upon my actual experience and the direct experience of others I personally know and in many cases have ridden with. I started the experiment because I was riding 40k miles a year and the tires I was buying that lasted a consistent 12k miles disappeared from the market, leaving me with tires that often barely lasted 6k miles. It was a simple matter of ride less, pay more for tires, more often. Or try something different and ride more, spend less on tires. I have worn out a set of moto tires in 12 days with over 14k miles on them and dangerously into the cords when I got home. Running the CT meant I never had to worry about running out of tire before my ride was done.
What are your opinions based upon?
I'm not upset with you, I'm only trying to educate you. And it's only an "idea" to you. It's a proven concept to me. I proved it with my own bike, my own experiments and my own risk. I can tell you exactly how the tire dynamically changes during riding and cornering. Most people assume they know and are nearly always incorrect.
Seriously? You really believe that the owner's manual is the gospel? I've worked for OEMs. I know exactly what goes on when the manuals are written. The primary purpose is for the OEM to cover their butt legally, secondary is to provide some basic info to the owners. It's about liability. And are you really inferring that you never, not once, ever did anything not fully authorized by the owner's manual? If you say yes, you are mistaken. I don't know you, and can still safely say that. Read your manual. The only approved tire is the one the bike came with and sometimes one other. All other tires are not approved by the OEM, so you're on your own if something bad happens. Never mind just about any other change or accessory you may do.
Again, you're just wrong. Do you have any first hand experience working with engineers on projects and products?
You didn't do your research. If you're going to state over a hundred years of m/c manufacturers, you might want to go look at tires for motorcycles a hundred years ago.
And show me an engineer, I'll show you someone that is hindered by the marketing dept and stymied by the publication guys and more often than I'd like, needs the laws of physics explained to them. I've worked with a lot of engineers too, working for OEMs. There are a lot of compromises and design aspects that have nothing to do with making the product better or safer, just making it cheaper to produce or 'look different' from the other OEM's product.I hear that a lot from people that don't even understand what they are saying. Did I say I was trying to go as fast as possible? Did I say I wanted to go out on the race track? No, I didn't. That isn't anyone's goal when they decide to try Darksiding. Please present reasonable arguments if you persist in attempting to rationalize your unsupported opinion. GP racers don't even ride on tires we can buy in most cases. And if I had their tire budget, I would have never worried about how long tires lasted!
Enjoy your bike your way. Just resist the urge to tell others that you know that what they are doing is somehow incorrect or unsafe, when you haven't actually done or tried it yourself. And you know what I mean. No "if they rode off a cliff, would you do it too?" like someone's Mom arguing with a child.
Instead, if you see something you feel is odd, unsafe or wrong or just don't understand, ASK QUESTIONS! Enter into a discussion. Why are you doing that? What gain do you believe you will get. What made you consider doing that?
You may learn more. You may even convince someone that what ever it is that caused you to ask questions is not the best thing for them. But only if you can give a sound and supported argument based on facts and first hand experience.