BMW recall 440,000 bikes....moments of appreciation

Cantab

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I guess that would be a "better late than never" for standing behind their product? How many shafts have broken? And they're putting it on air & moisture that can't get out? So, they're going to put another hole in the shaft, hope the valve works, and send you on your way? How about refunding the cost of a new shaft to everyone that had to have theirs repaired?

I don't know why this pisses me off so much. Not like I have to worry since I'm riding a Thunder Lizard. I guess it's the "pay more for less" that seems to be everywhere nowadays.

Ha Ha ' Thunder Lizard ' :p:p:p:p :cool::cool::cool:
 

RCinNC

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Besides the matter of how the fork separation issue was handled is the engineering/design of the failure point itself. The top of the fork tubes were secured via crimp type process. Their FEA data surely told them this was adequate. Real world use evidently showed it was not.

As a career scientist/engineer, It’s pretty common knowledge that any FEA model prediction needs validation testing in the real world under actual use (and abuse) conditions. These kinds of engineering and design gaffs are classically symptomatic of over confidence in an FEA model. One, even minor, missed factor can trash your entire model. BTDT and have been completely flummoxed at the real world failure. In medical devices we’re regulatory required to validation of any models before commercial approval can be obtained, so these kinds of things reaching market are rare.

I suspect the Germans were reluctant to accept their model was inadequate. Such an attitude leads to blaming others, like the customer, for misusing the product outside the parameters they input to their cherished computer model. This leads to a delay in response as the engineers, designers or penny pinchers must slowly accept having to swallow their pride.


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I think the collision between engineers and accountants/executives is too often a fatal one, at least for the buyers of the product. It doesn't matter whether the product is a BMW, a Morton Thiokol solid rocket, a Ford Pinto, or the Hyatt Regency walkway. Engineers can certainly be guilty of hubris, and there's no doubt that they can be wrong about their original designs, but the real issue lies in the corporate culture that sits above the engineers. I'm not an engineer, but it's difficult for me to envision trained BMW designers and engineers receiving these reports from the field about multiple failures in their design and not taking it seriously. Engineers are scientists, and it's not the scientific method to see multiple failures of a similar nature in a design and decide "nah, it'll be fine". Contrarily, it's not difficult at all to envision discussions between BMW execs and their engineering staff about "how bad is this problem, really", in much the same way that Ford executives decided that it was cheaper to pay off the lawsuits from exploding Pinto fuel tanks than it was to repair the problem.

If I recall correctly, BMW did try and initially blame the fork problem on owners riding their motorcycles on really rough roads, and not any inherent flaw in their design.
 

WJBertrand

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I think the collision between engineers and accountants/executives is too often a fatal one, at least for the buyers of the product. It doesn't matter whether the product is a BMW, a Morton Thiokol solid rocket, a Ford Pinto, or the Hyatt Regency walkway. Engineers can certainly be guilty of hubris, and there's no doubt that they can be wrong about their original designs, but the real issue lies in the corporate culture that sits above the engineers. I'm not an engineer, but it's difficult for me to envision trained BMW designers and engineers receiving these reports from the field about multiple failures in their design and not taking it seriously. Engineers are scientists, and it's not the scientific method to see multiple failures of a similar nature in a design and decide "nah, it'll be fine". Contrarily, it's not difficult at all to envision discussions between BMW execs and their engineering staff about "how bad is this problem, really", in much the same way that Ford executives decided that it was cheaper to pay off the lawsuits from exploding Pinto fuel tanks than it was to repair the problem.

If I recall correctly, BMW did try and initially blame the fork problem on owners riding their motorcycles on really rough roads, and not any inherent flaw in their design.
Yup, fought those battles many times with not just bean counters, but marketing and sales folks too. The latter often wanted me to rubber stamp claims and applications for which we did not have data to support. I was often not very popular among those types. Retired now so all that shit is behind me.


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Kruzzin5

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What I can’t get over is, who’s been doing shaft drives longer than BMW? If anyone should have this figured out it should be them, right?


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exactly! Their problem is, they are cutting corners, that they have already cut.
 

VRODE

Easy Does It
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Instead of admitting a design flaw, you get “that’s the way it’s supposed to work” or “you’re not maintaining it correctly”
Doing a soft recall after 9 years of production is ridiculous. Originally this was the design which was going to require no maintenance at all.
 

Sierra1

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. . . . If I recall correctly, BMW did try and initially blame the fork problem on owners riding their motorcycles on really rough roads, and not any inherent flaw in their design.
A.K.A Using them for their designed purpose. Instead of using them to get to Starbucks.

I was reading that Ford is having issues with the new Bronco's motor. Sound like corners being cut there too. Seems to be a pattern: Pay a lot for a vehicle with supposed above average capabilities . . . . only to be disappointed.
 

RCinNC

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A.K.A Using them for their designed purpose. Instead of using them to get to Starbucks.

I was reading that Ford is having issues with the new Bronco's motor. Sound like corners being cut there too. Seems to be a pattern: Pay a lot for a vehicle with supposed above average capabilities . . . . only to be disappointed.
Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny, since BMW advertised the GS as a world traveling, go anywhere sort of bike, and their advertising even depicted the GS blasting across the rocky desert over the kinds of off pavement riding that they later claimed was actually harmful to the bike. "Yeah, I know we are the manufacturers of a premier luxury brand of motorcycle that you can ride across the Road of Bones, but don't hit too many potholes or else the forks will come apart". Jeez.

I've never agreed with the HD or BMW bashers who just generally deride either brand with the standard "hurr durr, all BMWs/Harley Davidsons suck". That's objectively untrue. But man, I swear the only thing worse than the blanket HD/BMW apologists are Elon Musk fanatics. I really liked my Road King, and I still like Harleys, but it didn't blind me to the myriad of problems that have occurred with that company. I'd have gladly led the torch and pitchfork wielding crowd in storming Milwaukee headquarters after I got that $1100 bill for the CCT hydraulic fixit solution to replace their faulty original design that they wouldn't own up to. They made that version of the Twin Cam 88 for seven years, Jeebus knows how many guys bought them, (and how many engines got damaged) and then quietly changed the CCT design for the 07 models without ever coming clean about the original.

That sucks about Ford. Up until they stopped making cars and decided to go all in with the bloated profit generators that is the modern SUV, a Ford was probably the only American car I would have bought. Guess I'll stick with Toyotas; I'm still driving the same one I bought 14 years ago.
 

Sierra1

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Another "not admitting anything, but we're changing how we make it". Kimber was making a 1911 .45acp. We had about a dozen of them. Could not get through an 8rd magazine without a malfunction. Kimber told us all kinds of things, none of which were their fault. Finally, we started sending the pistols back to them. They were returned with a "polished feed ramp, and replaced front sight. Everything fixed, and no malfunctions. One day somebody noticed that the "fixed" ones had been changed from an INternal extractor, to an EXternal extractor. Apparently, replaced front sight was code for "we replaced the whole F'n slide". Fixed it . . . . but admitted nothing.
 

RCinNC

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My experience with Taurus customer service was equally bad. Back in the mid 2000's I had a Millenium Pro PT 145. There was a defect with the recoil spring, and it actually broke while it was installed in the slide assembly. I couldn't even get Taurus on the phone to try and get a replacement part under warranty. This happened back when I was on the job, and the PT145 was what I carried when I worked narcotics. Numerous phone messages to Taurus went unanswered; finally I wrote a letter to Taurus where I told them who I was and what I did for a living, and that I'd go out of my way to contact everyone I knew in law enforcement and inform them that Taurus was not a reliable company to deal with and produced a shoddy product. It took that letter just to get someone to answer my complaint. Eventually they sent me several replacement recoil spring assemblies, but that hardly restored my faith in the company. That lack of faith was reinforced several years later when a class action lawsuit had to be filed against Taurus to force them to address a potentially dangerous issue with the safety on multiple guns in the Millenium Pro series. Even after Taurus was ordered by the court to rectify the problem, they made it so difficult and convoluted to get the pistol replaced or repaired that I gave up, put it back in its case, and bought a Glock. Taurus is one company that I'll never do business with again, not because there was a defect in their product, but because it required threats to get them to do the right thing and fix their screwed up product.
 

StefanOnHisS10

Converting fuel into heat, noise and a bit motion
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A.K.A Using them for their designed purpose. Instead of using them to get to Starbucks.

I was reading that Ford is having issues with the new Bronco's motor. Sound like corners being cut there too. Seems to be a pattern: Pay a lot for a vehicle with supposed above average capabilities . . . . only to be disappointed.
That is a big problem (IMO) over here too. New cars and bikes are produced with small but very powerful engines. With the use of thin (=light) materials. Cutting corners a lot. Not uncommon to see a 1.2L engine with up to 200+ horsies. I am not believing they are durable. Especially the way people drive them. Not warming the engine etc. Nope I’ll stay with “no replacement for displacement “.
With Japanse cars I don’t worry as much since they have been doing that forever, and they are have the best engineers. But the some German, plenty French and Italian cars suffer.

That was my rant for today…
 

cyclemike4

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ky
Several years ago I was repairing a old 300c.i. ford motor for our truck. the shop I went to to get parts was showing me cars he had with engines out of them and they were not repairable at all. He named off several engines that were so thin that they were throw a way motors. No way to rebuild them. I guess a lot of things are that way now. Engineered to just get past the first owner. Oh the 300 ford had been worked very hard and put away wet for 25 years. My father in law gave us the truck running but very tired. It is still strong running now and the truck is 42 years old. Can't beat the old fords. Not so sure about the new one's! My buddy was having very bad issues with a triton engine and the ford dealer told him to throw the motor away and get another one they are not worth rebuilding. Of course he fixed it but that truck only had about 120000 miles on it. It needed the cam phasers both cams timing chains and a lot of valve springs! Not to mention the plugs broke off in the heads!
 

Cycledude

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Yes the bad BMW drive train issue has been going on for way to many years and cost BMW a lot of good customers, I have a few friends that went through that crazy expensive deal and even though they liked BMW they say they will never buy another one. And then there are some BMW lover folks that are perfectly willing to pay the crazy high price and wait months to get it fixed.
 

AZMike

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Sometimes I wonder if we are getting over engineered goodies that dazzle but don't really add to the riding experience. Some of you know I recently bought a 2021 Honda Africa Twin. The 6.5 inch touch screen dash board was extremely complicated and hard to navigate. It is also over 1400 buck to replace. I am old and like the old adage of KISS. I like my S10 just the way it is. My daily work truck is 38 years old and has served me well 28 years. I can fix anything on it myself and have numerous times over the years on the side of the road. I owned one BMW and that was an old airhead, which I loved for it simplicity and ruggedness.

Here is a picture of my truck odometer, just gotta keep her alive for two more years!

truck.jpg
 

Longdog Cymru

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The thing is when the Press test them they give you the impression they are the best bikes. We know different.
I agree, the motorcycle press go on 200 miles jollies to launches in sunny locations during winter months, they run a bike prepped by BMW U.K. for maybe a few thousand miles over several months and then they hand them back. They do not pay for their bikes or for the servicing, yet they heap praise on these bikes and now they have almost half a million bikes under recall!
I owned a BMW 750/6 and I loved it! It lived outside all year round and always cleaned up perfectly with no corrosion. It started up straight away after I dug it out of a snow drift and I was sorry to see it go. The next BMW I owned was a R1150GS and I said I would never sell it! Little did I know that the powder coated parts, fork legs, cylinder heads, shaft drive and rear wheel hub would bubble up and flake off! And this BMW lived in a nice cosy garage! I would like a GS with telelever front end, but I will never own one, because unless I pay for extended warranty, I could never feel confident of getting to my destination. Oh yes, and the mythical BMW residuals are just that, they are mythical if you are trading in, but wonderful if you are buying!
 

fac191

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I spoke to a guy who had a T9 retro type bike. BMW serviced from new at the dealer. When it ran out of warranty he took it to someone else reccomended. They said it hasn't been touched.
 

Sierra1

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, , , , That lack of faith was reinforced several years later when a class action lawsuit had to be filed against Taurus to force them to address a potentially dangerous issue with the safety on multiple guns in the Millenium Pro series. . . .
Yeah, those were the ones that were firing a round if they were dropped. Scarry as hell.
The thing is when the Press test them they give you the impression they are the best bikes. We know different.
Now, in defense of the press (I hate to do that) Beemers are great for a while. Plenty of time to fall in love with them. But . . . . living with them long term . . . . :oops:
 
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