40K mile valve check

Klye

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Hello everyone.

I have a new to me 2013 Sup10. Bike runs great.
Valves were checked and in spec at around 15K miles.
Bike is at the shop now for valve adjustment as the bike has 40K miles currently.
Service guy i talked to on the phone said he thought the tech said the valves were good and still in spec, which surprised me.

Is it normal to still be in spec at this mileage?

Shop has been reputable for me in past.
I had them write up the estimate for actually doing an adjustment, so my actual bill should be less than that right?

Also, he said they forgot to install my new ape CCT (which makes me wonder if they even did the work) so they are going to knock that out quick b4 I pick it up tmr.
 

Don T

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Yes, it's not unusual that the valves doesn't need adjustment at that point.

The valves on mine haven't needed adjustment for the last 120.000 km.
 

~TABASCO~

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I "think" your on the right track about all your statements...

Ive performed MANY valve checks... IMOP, after 40K and all the valves totally in spec is highly unlikely.... I suggest that you get the sheet of info on each specific valve and the value each valve has / had....... While doing the work the mechanic would have a sheet to keep track of the feeler gauges he has used and what size he will need next... He needs this info if he comes across a valve that is out.... Ive never met anyone that can memorize that info all by hart...... ( I always suggest that customers (demand) get this sheet of info for there "records"...... )

Ive kindly suggested for years that checking the valves is one price....... adjusting the valves is a different amount of work and is a different price......

I feel you on the MCCT.... seems odd that would not put it unless someone just really forgot or is a bone head....

If I was standing there, I could probably tell you if that motor was taken apart and things got checked or not. If you want send me some pictures from behind the front wheel up at the valve cover... Or the side of the valve cover...

I think your thoughts are on the right track... JMOP


FEEL FREE to ask me any questions you want...
 
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~TABASCO~

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Yes, it's not unusual that the valves doesn't need adjustment at that point.

The valves on mine haven't needed adjustment for the last 120.000 km.


You have a one in a million valve check engine.......... You need to play the LOTTO.......... your extremely lucky..........


Ive NEVER come across a bike like yours before.....
 

~TABASCO~

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Thanks Tabasco, will do!

Just another friendly 'thought'............. The APE brand MCCT has a more course thread pitch than the Graves unit. What this means is its a bit more fickle to dial in because the threads are course and adjusting is big jumps.... SO, its a little more difficult to really dial it in. When you get your bike back make sure you don't hear any chain chatter, ever (this would be loose)... if you hear a whine, (this would be tight). You don't want either one.... Just be aware before you ride away.... "thumbs up".


Also note: you hear people talking about hearing chain chatter only on start up. This is because they have a stock unit that works on / with oil pressure... With a manual its static, and not waiting on oil pressure. So with a manual its always a static situation. That why I say it will be tight all the time, Perfict all the time, loose all the time...... If you hear any chatter it wont get better, it needs to be adjusted...
 

Mistic107

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Shop has been reputable for me in past.
I had them write up the estimate for actually doing an adjustment, so my actual bill should be less than that right?
Klye, you mind sharing that estimate, with and without the work done? I need to get my valves done in the near future.
 

Klye

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Hey Mistic.
Two shops near me both looked it up as 6hrs of labor to ADJUST valves (skilled mechanic). Their cost estimates were very similar, so i went with the closer shop I usually use which had me at $905. I think just checking valves was 4hrs of labor.

Shouldn't really add any labor cost to have them replace CCT while doing a valve adjustment.
 

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I rode my bike 3 years and did 3 valve clearance inspections but it was 100,000 kms before any valve adjustments were needed and even then it was only 2 exhaust valves a bit tight.

Thats excelent.... I don't typically come across those bikes... not all need adjustment at the 50K mark but typically a few are on the limit. I think its fantastic that you're checking them ! Ive always suggested that folks check them and at least they know where the motor is with clearances. If an owner decides to get the valves back into spec or back in the 'middle' of spec is 100% their decision.... I occasionally come across someone with 75-100K and they have never had them checked because what they have read on the internet. Once we check the valves there are valves that are out (sometimes way out) and others on the edge... The owner has the same story EVERY time, "I really wish I had them checked sooner"......
 

Klye

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THE GOOD:
Picked up the bike today. Was told all the valves were in spec (intake in the middle of range, exhaust at the tighter end of range). After talking with them and looking over the bike I think they did check the valves. Service guy said the internals of the top end looked really good, no noticeable wear. Ape CCT was installed.

THE BAD:
They had the bike for 5 weeks.
Some of the hoses weren't routed correctly. Any guides on here for routing the gas tank overflow hoses and fuel line?
One of the engine stay plate flange bolts was cross threaded badly and they decided to just crank it back in with some washers.
Timing jumped when he did the Ape CCT install, but he got it sorted out and I didn't get charged extra for his mistake. Engine sounds normal to me, but I'll upload a video for peace of mind.
The mechanic did not keep the valve clearance measurements, but he recalled them all being within spec.
The paperwork was a massacre, work was listed as being done on a 91 nighthawk I used to own. Mileage wasn't listed. The report just said "valve check/adjust" so I had him add "valves within spec" to it. Also had him add the guestimated valve clearances measured, but he put it in hundreths of an inch, lol.

Glad to have the bike back and running good, but definitely not impressed overall.

Flange bolt.jpgInvoice.jpg
 

~TABASCO~

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When I do a valve check I dont remove that large bolt.... Can someone tell me if this is one of the "engine to the frame" bolts? What side of the motorcycle did this come out of? If I remember correctly the left side goes into the block. The right side goes into those expansion draw-up type parts.
 

Klye

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When I do a valve check I dont remove that large bolt.... Can someone tell me if this is one of the "engine to the frame" bolts? What side of the motorcycle did this come out of? If I remember correctly the left side goes into the block. The right side goes into those expansion draw-up type parts.
Standing in front of the bike, this would be the top right flange bolt that goes through the engine stay plate into the bike frame.

Shop ordered me a new bolt and I'm going to try to clean up the hole with a tap. It's M12-1.25
 

Klye

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Short video of my engine idling with newly installed Ape CCT. Sounds normal to me, but let me know if you think otherwise?
 

~TABASCO~

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Really hard to ‘accurately’ tell, but just by the audio, sounds loose……..
 

Klye

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So I played with the adjuster. Backed it out about a full turn and didn't hear any change in engine noise, so put it back where I started.

Look about right? How easy or hard should it be to turn the adjuster screw?
 

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~TABASCO~

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So I played with the adjuster. Backed it out about a full turn and didn't hear any change in engine noise, so put it back where I started.

Look about right? How easy or hard should it be to turn the adjuster screw?
It won’t really be “how it looks”. It’s about how it sounds, tight or loose. You should be able to adjust it with a socket on it and turn it with your fingers. No need for wrenches to do the final adjustment. If you tighten all the way up by hand you should be able to hear it ‘whining’. Then I mark it. Then loosen it until you begins to hear chain chatter and mark or make note. I do this several times to “dial” it in and get the same results over and over. Once I have this I split the difference and put it between those two spots and snug up the jam nut.
 
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Klye

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Tabasco,

Thanks. My APE CCT is the newer version that uses a 4mm allen wrench to adjust tensioner bolt. I backed it off about a full turn and didn't hear the characteristic ticking i was expecting. I was worried about backing it off too far, but maybe the shop overtightened it... Didn't hear any whining sounds either though.
 
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