Life! (corona virus, non informative, non hysterical post)

AusTexS10

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Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
737
Location
Austin, TX
Your statistics do not tell the whole story. They are only confirmed cases. The US is one of the top leading countries in testing and results right now so we have the most cases. Other countries not shown are not taking the testing serious enough. We have no way of knowing what the true numbers are. Your chart also does not show the per capita number. So the numbers you are posting are very skewed.
There are those who say you can skew statistics to say whatever you want to promote, but all of the statistical arguments and conspiracy theories don't mean a lot to the friends and relatives of the almost 90,000 U.S. citizens that have passed to date.
 

RIVA

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Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
762
Location
Cloyne Co.Cork Eire
Your statistics do not tell the whole story. They are only confirmed cases. The US is one of the top leading countries in testing and results right now so we have the most cases. Other countries not shown are not taking the testing serious enough. We have no way of knowing what the true numbers are. Your chart also does not show the per capita number. So the numbers you are posting are very skewed.
The attached seems to show that this statement is to quote the above "Skewed" to say the least.
 
B

ballisticexchris

Guest
There are those who say you can skew statistics to say whatever you want to promote, but all of the statistical arguments and conspiracy theories don't mean a lot to the friends and relatives of the almost 90,000 U.S. citizens that have passed to date.
Very true I have already had one person in my family die, his wife in quarantine, and my friend was under isolation and almost died.
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
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2011 Site Supporter
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Messages
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Calm down fellows, I'm posting on topic in this corona virus thread.

Oh, ok. At the risk of CW banning me for posting, I'll provide the info that my fellow members requested above. I'm including the Aus stuff only for transparency (not political reasons), otherwise a crayon-wielder may get uppity.

2talltoo, I was just trying to get the thread back on topic, that was my point.

. . .

Please don't bring up irrelevant and inflammatory things like Americans helping Aussies during the fires, or else I'll be compelled to mention the Aussies who fly north for the California fire season. Those guys help each other out regularly, they're like that. I'm worried that if I do mention that - only in response to you - then CW is likely to ban me.

Stop it and stay on topic is my advice.
I'm putting this post up for transparency, as OX-34 has singled me out a few times in the last couple of days, although it was agreement between the site owner and us moderators to give him the week off he's back from. That was a painful decision because OX-34 has been here since nearly the beginning of the forum and is clearly a sharp person who has contributed a lot over the years. So to everybody - Take this as a warning that Banned Camp is a real thing. In response to a personal question the others have probably wondered the same about, I let the comments slide to see what would happen with his return, and my impression is that he's listened. The forum's a family, we have arguments, then we get back together and move on. [btw - I got a Time Out over on ADV once so am no virgin either.]

"The Lounge, Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board" does NOT mean be abrasive, keep posting what is likely to irritate people with different views, then keep coming back to do it over and over. Actually, the Lounge is more of a discussion area and the Debate Room is the place to go to be more in line with that "anything and everything" idea. If/when I get a chance I'll edit those to be a little more clear.

If you want to START a thread about your feelings on whatever, (1) do it in the Debate Room, (2) the rule about not attacking another member still applies, and (3) try to keep the responses and discussion somewhat on topic. Just like you would do in a face to face discussion, don't bear-bait the person you are talking or writing with in any forum. Religion and politics go there very quickly so I appreciate OX-34's comments above in trying to keep you other guys on topic. Notice that he's arguing the argument and others have in response; in addressing the use of the statistics for example. Cool.

A little thread deviation and banter is the norm and what keeps us all here because it keeps life interesting. Somebody brought up people who have conspiracy theories, I responded with a personal story, Chris talks about going for walks and his family, while Shumba wrote about how he'd like to poke somebody in the ribs. [Really? :rolleyes: ] But we came back to topic and keep pulling back when things get personal. The bottom line as AvGeek so well expressed the basics in 2014:

"
Due to recent feedback, we have decided to “step-up” moderation here on the forum. Our goal is to keep this a friendly, inviting community, so we will be paying closer attention to posts, and will remove those which, in our interpretation, violate the rules. If the moderation team determines to remove posts, those decisions are final, and any further attempt to continue negative trends, or any questioning or discussion of the moderator’s actions will also be subject to removal. Those members who choose to “act out” and not abide by the rules, will face sanctions, up to and including permanent removal from the forum.

We know most of the members here act like the adults we expect everyone to be, and contribute to the knowledge and enjoyment of our bikes. Our goal is not to stifle debate or discussion, but rather to ensure that everyone who posts can do so without the threat of personal attacks, and to keep the personality of this community positive.
"

Hey. It's a beautiful day and I need to get the bike out. C'ya
 
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AusTexS10

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Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
737
Location
Austin, TX
Very true I have already had one person in my family die, his wife in quarantine, and my friend was under isolation and almost died.
I remember your eartlier posts on that and am sorry for your loss and the problems for his wife and your friend. I am fortunate to not know anyone personally that has contracted this virus, and hope to continue that. My wife and I are both in that older risk group and I am so disappointed and disgusted in the "grand re-openings" sponsored by my state government in Texas; the increasing upward slope of the curve now several weeks into the "re-opening" clearly show how ill-advised it is at this point, but they continue to add different classes that get to "re-open" each week, and each of these is riskier than the businesses allowed to open the prior week. And Texas isn't the only state. Insanity reigns.
 

magic

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Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
746
Location
WISCONSIN
I remember your eartlier posts on that and am sorry for your loss and the problems for his wife and your friend. I am fortunate to not know anyone personally that has contracted this virus, and hope to continue that. My wife and I are both in that older risk group and I am so disappointed and disgusted in the "grand re-openings" sponsored by my state government in Texas; the increasing upward slope of the curve now several weeks into the "re-opening" clearly show how ill-advised it is at this point, but they continue to add different classes that get to "re-open" each week, and each of these is riskier than the businesses allowed to open the prior week. And Texas isn't the only state. Insanity reigns.
Well put AusTexS10. You are correct about the insanity reigning in this country. I am sure some of you saw what happened in Wisconsin this week. The state supreme court voted 4-3 to basically remove the governor's stay at home order. Now, the governor and state health department have no power or authority to manage the opening of the state. There is NO plan on the safe reopening of Wisconsin. The controlling political party has left it up to each individual to be safe. We saw how well that works when the news showed scenes from inside several bars recently. County and local health departments rescinded their orders because they felt they would lose any legal challenges. The bars were opening literally 10 minutes after the court decision was announced and they were packed.

It is not possible to discuss the coronavirus pandemic without having politics entering into the discussion. Our elected officials at all levels refuse to listen to the doctors and scientists. I am watching the news as I am typing this post and they are talking about the nightclub incident in South Korea where one person has infected 162 other people. There is a lesson to be learned here and our elected officials don't see it. There are many other examples where the cases and deaths skyrocket after these early openings. I know this country can't stay closed forever, but let the experts do their jobs.

Welcome back OX-34. I appreciate your posts.
 

fac191

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
2,845
Location
London
Well put AusTexS10. You are correct about the insanity reigning in this country. I am sure some of you saw what happened in Wisconsin this week. The state supreme court voted 4-3 to basically remove the governor's stay at home order. Now, the governor and state health department have no power or authority to manage the opening of the state. There is NO plan on the safe reopening of Wisconsin. The controlling political party has left it up to each individual to be safe. We saw how well that works when the news showed scenes from inside several bars recently. County and local health departments rescinded their orders because they felt they would lose any legal challenges. The bars were opening literally 10 minutes after the court decision was announced and they were packed.

It is not possible to discuss the coronavirus pandemic without having politics entering into the discussion. Our elected officials at all levels refuse to listen to the doctors and scientists. I am watching the news as I am typing this post and they are talking about the nightclub incident in South Korea where one person has infected 162 other people. There is a lesson to be learned here and our elected officials don't see it. There are many other examples where the cases and deaths skyrocket after these early openings. I know this country can't stay closed forever, but let the experts do their jobs.

Welcome back OX-34. I appreciate your posts.
 
B

ballisticexchris

Guest
I remember your eartlier posts on that and am sorry for your loss and the problems for his wife and your friend. I am fortunate to not know anyone personally that has contracted this virus, and hope to continue that. My wife and I are both in that older risk group and I am so disappointed and disgusted in the "grand re-openings" sponsored by my state government in Texas; the increasing upward slope of the curve now several weeks into the "re-opening" clearly show how ill-advised it is at this point, but they continue to add different classes that get to "re-open" each week, and each of these is riskier than the businesses allowed to open the prior week. And Texas isn't the only state. Insanity reigns.
We are seeing this here in CA as well. My wife and I took the "long way home" a few weeks back from a supply delivery to my parents. We cruised by the Balboa Peninsula and was shocked to see how crowded the beach was and hardly anyone at all wearing masks. We opted to drive back the way we came and not take the ferry. It was a zoo. All the beach parking lots were closed so everyone parked around residences. The worst thing is it's shoulder to shoulder. It seems that no one gives a crap how serious this is.
 

AusTexS10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
737
Location
Austin, TX
Well put AusTexS10. You are correct about the insanity reigning in this country. I am sure some of you saw what happened in Wisconsin this week. The state supreme court voted 4-3 to basically remove the governor's stay at home order. Now, the governor and state health department have no power or authority to manage the opening of the state. There is NO plan on the safe reopening of Wisconsin. The controlling political party has left it up to each individual to be safe. We saw how well that works when the news showed scenes from inside several bars recently. County and local health departments rescinded their orders because they felt they would lose any legal challenges. The bars were opening literally 10 minutes after the court decision was announced and they were packed.

It is not possible to discuss the coronavirus pandemic without having politics entering into the discussion. Our elected officials at all levels refuse to listen to the doctors and scientists. I am watching the news as I am typing this post and they are talking about the nightclub incident in South Korea where one person has infected 162 other people. There is a lesson to be learned here and our elected officials don't see it. There are many other examples where the cases and deaths skyrocket after these early openings. I know this country can't stay closed forever, but let the experts do their jobs.

Welcome back OX-34. I appreciate your posts.
As concerned as I am about the unconscionable actions in my own state officials, I really feel for the citizens of Wisconsin (where I still have a few relatives). The thought that came to me when watching the news was a question of who was acting more irresponsibly, the Wisconsin Supreme Court or the Darwin Award contestants in the bar?
 

Mak10

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Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
2,567
Location
SE Idaho
In my opinion the insanity in this country is the blanket orders that are “FEAR” based. I feel that the Wisconsin courts got it right, in that everybody is forced to quarantine themselves at home. Sick or well.
I am at a loss as why it is the Government’s responsibility to keep everyone safe from everything. Do you realize that people are going to die from some cause. Whether it be the flu, covid 19, heart disease, a car accident, cancer, Malaria, or any other of the multitude of reasons people die.
If wearing a mask makes you feel safe, wear one. If you don’t want to catch something, stay home. If you don’t want to get in a car accident, don’t ride in a car.

But to live our life in fear, isn’t freedom, and the mandate given out by a governor can only be temporary. To limitthe constitutional right to gather, can’t be taken away.
To take away our freedoms out of fear, not by the color of law is, down right scary.

You can put up statistics that support any opinion. Do I believe the numbers coming out of China? Russia? Or even the United States?

The Covid 19 virus is not going away. Not ever. Th flu virus is here to stay, AIDS is here to stay. The best we can hope for is to not overwhelm our healthcare facilities. It seems that here around me we are doing a good job at that.
I don’t live in NYC or LA. Why would I have the same quarantine rules?
Simply put, our society is not set up for social distancing. Our School system Doesn’t work, our entertainment doesn’t work, our shopping doesn’t work.
It’s not Trump’s fault, it’s not the Senator’s fault it’s not anybody’s fault.
How are we going to change to deal with infection? How is society going to adapt?
 

SHUMBA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
1,242
Location
ONTARIO, CANADA
In my opinion the insanity in this country is the blanket orders that are “FEAR” based. I feel that the Wisconsin courts got it right, in that everybody is forced to quarantine themselves at home. Sick or well.
I am at a loss as why it is the Government’s responsibility to keep everyone safe from everything. Do you realize that people are going to die from some cause. Whether it be the flu, covid 19, heart disease, a car accident, cancer, Malaria, or any other of the multitude of reasons people die.
If wearing a mask makes you feel safe, wear one. If you don’t want to catch something, stay home. If you don’t want to get in a car accident, don’t ride in a car.

But to live our life in fear, isn’t freedom, and the mandate given out by a governor can only be temporary. To limitthe constitutional right to gather, can’t be taken away.
To take away our freedoms out of fear, not by the color of law is, down right scary.

You can put up statistics that support any opinion. Do I believe the numbers coming out of China? Russia? Or even the United States?

The Covid 19 virus is not going away. Not ever. Th flu virus is here to stay, AIDS is here to stay. The best we can hope for is to not overwhelm our healthcare facilities. It seems that here around me we are doing a good job at that.
I don’t live in NYC or LA. Why would I have the same quarantine rules?
Simply put, our society is not set up for social distancing. Our School system Doesn’t work, our entertainment doesn’t work, our shopping doesn’t work.
It’s not Trump’s fault, it’s not the Senator’s fault it’s not anybody’s fault.
How are we going to change to deal with infection? How is society going to adapt?
I have the solution.
Ride ride ride.
SHUMBA

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
 
B

ballisticexchris

Guest
I do not see the "blanket orders" for prevention fear based at all. I look at them as common sense. Unfortunately common sense it is running short in our society. Even with all the scientific proof of this being one of the most serious viruses found, humans are not listening.

There are even members right here on this and other public forums planning on crossing state lines on motorcycles and putting themselves and others at unnecessary risk. Stopping at eateries, gas stations, national parks, group gatherings etc. All in the name of having fun. Never mind that states and smart humans are discouraging interstate travel for pleasure. The only thing we can hope for is that none of these "pleasure seeking" travelers have the virus or contract it and spread it.

It's bad enough we got idiots here locally not using good judgement or prudence. Too bad it's a nationwide/worldwide problem of dimwits drenched in their self righteous attitudes.
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,506
Location
Damascus, MD
In my opinion the insanity in this country is the blanket orders that are “FEAR” based. I feel that the Wisconsin courts got it right, in that everybody is forced to quarantine themselves at home. Sick or well.
I am at a loss as why it is the Government’s responsibility to keep everyone safe from everything. Do you realize that people are going to die from some cause. Whether it be the flu, covid 19, heart disease, a car accident, cancer, Malaria, or any other of the multitude of reasons people die.
If wearing a mask makes you feel safe, wear one. If you don’t want to catch something, stay home. If you don’t want to get in a car accident, don’t ride in a car.
. . .
I understand your argument, I really do, and agree that one set of rules for everybody in the country/world just doesn't work. Idaho may be able to get away with less stringent measures than New York or some of the big cities. And yes, some States probably did go into CYA fear mode and shut down more than they needed. An example in my State is that all recreational boating was initially banned so a single person couldn't go fishing. The over-reach was recognized, and that has been lifted.

Yet the efficacy of distancing and testing IS based in cold hard numbers. But more than that they are based on common sense. Going to the point of thinking that people ALL think rationally and will distance themselves because it is the right thing to do just flat out defies all experience and common sense. The very real flip side of the "everybody is a rational adult" argument is to say Marx was right in everybody will freely contribute what they can and take only what they need. The real world just doesn't work either of those ways and the cases rising in places that have relaxed distancing have proven it again. No surprise because as you wrote, it's not how we are wired.

Unless told or trained otherwise, people will do whatever the F they want and to a point that is OK. The point where another persons' freedom ends is at the tip of my nose. I didn't make that up, it is the basis for most laws. If somebody makes the choice to smoke when they are on their own or in their house and shorten their life, to me it is their choice. That is UNTIL they want to smoke in my house or around me enough to harm MY health. Obviously that is why smoking is not allowed where people are cooped up together and there are "no smoking" ordnances. You'd be the first to object and talk about land use laws/ordnances/restrictions if I said "Hey, I want to put a foul smelling garbage site right next door to your property, it will be out of sight, and it's on my property so tough beans about what you're going to smell as long as you live there. "

I see no difference between the ordnances in the smoking example and the need to have some ground rules to try to limit this disease. If you and your loved ones and friends want to have big oily orgies with pink sheep on moonlit nights, it would be fine IF IF IF you all could limit it to your group. For example, if everybody voluntarily orders in groceries and pizza till you all have gotten over the flu one person brought to the party. But we both know those people will not stay home, and neither can I because I need to eat too. Jimmie will need to go for groceries, hacking up a lung over the vegetables. Amy will insist on not wearing something to cover her flu ridden mouth and stand right behind me in line. Without some basic ground rules it's just about like an entire group being forced to sit in an office next to a chain smoker day after day.

And yes, we are all going to die at some point but I'm going to put it off as long as I can control.
 

magic

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Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
746
Location
WISCONSIN
The "blanket" orders were based on facts and the recommendations of the scientific and medical experts, not fear. The orders were intended to buy the medical community some time to ramp up in case of a surge in cases. PPE, N95 masks and test kits are still in short supply. I have a younger sister that works at an assisted living facility in Milwaukee. She had symptoms in March and was quarantined. There were no tests available at that time. Now she wants to have the antibody test, her doctor could not get a test for her as of yesterday. Surveys showed that 64% of Wisconsin citizens were supportive of the governor's stay at home plan which was scheduled to end on May 26th. Also, there was an election for a state supreme court seat in April. The incumbent conservative (republican) backed candidate was defeated by 160,000 votes. Over 10 percentage points. After the election he recused himself from the court. The new justice is to be sworn in August 1st. When this case came up he decided to vote anyway, casting the deciding vote. The surveys and the margin of defeat clearly show what the majority of Wisconsin citizens want. We set a new record today in Wisconsin, 502 new cases.
 

Eville Rich

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Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
464
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Yeah, that court ruling set a terrible precedent. It simply results in the lowest denominator in society deciding outcomes for everyone else. It's not freedom, it's freedumb.

We're going to see a lot of summer travel up north (which has now started). Hopefully we don't start seeing outbreaks. But they are more likely to happen now in the rural parts of the State where the medical facilities are pretty sparse. I get the need and desire for people to get back to work and open up the state for the tourist season , but it's likely to result in bystanders getting infected. The number of medical expense-induced bankruptcies are likely to increase in WI and elsewhere. I hope going to the bar for cocktails is worth getting COVID or passing it along.
 
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