Seat Removal Broken Lock

Hello, I just purchased a 2012 last weekend that has seen lots of weather (college student). The ignition key does not fit in the seat lock but the ignition and gas cap work just fine with the same key. Now I'm trying to get the seat off for maintenance. If I remove the security screws that holds the lock, can I get the seat off then? I might be able to salvage the lock that way. Or will I have to drill it out or maybe use a strong screwdriver to break it? It has a Sargent seat if that matters. Thanks

Are you saying you are completely unable to insert the key into the lock ? Have you tried spraying WD40 into the lock ? Maybe its froze but will loosen up with some lube.
if you are able to get the key into the lock but it simply won’t turn you might want to try banging on the seat while turning the key there just might be to much pressure on the locking mechanism and banging down on the seat might relieve some of the pressure So the key could be turned.

Or sit on the seat, while trying to turn the key.

Mine never locked down.

The key won't go into the lock and I tried WD-40. Something is seriously messed up with the lock. I'm thinking I either buy a security screwdriver and see if I can manipulate it to open or use a flat blade screwdriver and force it to turn. .

Sounds like you might need to replace the lock, plenty available new or used

Yep I just have to figure out the easiest way to do that since it requires seat removal


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How does the rear seat come off? I figured the front comes off first.


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SmokinRZ said:

How does the rear seat come off? I figured the front comes off first.


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Normally the rear comes off by removing the two bolts at the front of the rear seat, which are usually covered by the rear of the front seat. Not sure you'll be able to access those with the rider's seat in place, especially an aftermarket one.

Is there a possibility that a key is broken off inside the seat lock? If so, a small pick and some patience might allow you to remove the broken piece and unlock it normally.

If you can un-bolt the seat lock, it's on a cable and you may be able to manipulate the cable enough to un-latch the seat, or it may make it easier to see what's up with the lock and if there is a broken key inside. That would be my first route to solving this. Note that Harbor Freight sells a nice set of security bits for cheap, and often Home Depot sells individual bits. Or just dremel a slot into the head and use a flat point screw driver.

Also be aware that aftermarket seats are notorious for being a tight fit to the latch. As others have shared, some downward force or having someone sit on the seat may make it much easier to un-latch the seat once you sort the lock issue.

Great, thanks. I looked inside with a flashlight and can’t see anything inside the lock. I’m not sure if the ignition and gas cap were replaced and not the seat lock or if the elements have taken a toll. I think I will get the security bits and try removing it. My only fear is once the lock falls inside I won’t be able to use the screwdriver method. I will look to night and see if I can get the rear seat off first.


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You do know that the key doesn't fit all the way in like the ignition, right? It only goes about half way in, up to the square shoulder.

No I didn’t. I will look at it again tonight. It hangs up when I try to remove it and I only have one key at the moment so I don’t want to get too aggressive with it.


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Have a lock smith make you a couple extra keys using a standard Ilco blank. They are stronger than the factory keys. Then if the key goes in past the small notches to where the sides of the key are un-cut, that's as far as it will go. You should be able to turn it then, IF you press down on the front of the seat or have someone sit on it. As I mentioned before, aftermarket seats are notorious for being tight to the latch, difficult to get latched and difficult to get un-latched at times. There are some simple fixes you can do if this turns out to be the case. Adding washers under the seat latch on the seat itself so it sticks 'down' a bit more can make a world of difference.

Good luck! I hope this is all it is.

edit, if it's more than that, try to see if you will have access to the back of the lock mechanism if you un-do the security bolts before you go down that road. I don't have a S10 any more to go look at, but on my current Yamaha you won't gain anything by unbolting it at the face of the lock, it would just allow it to push inside the plastic where you can't get to it.

Perfect, thank you for the insight. I will get some extra keys made this weekend and try again. As it is now, I can’t twist the key in the lock. I will try to get the rear seat off tonight. Thanks!


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SmokinRZ said:

As it is now, I can’t twist the key in the lock.

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Which is common with the tight aftermarket seat. Try the downward pressure, then turn and see how it goes.

This forum is full of helpful people with vast collective experience and different angles of attack to problems. Don't be afraid to keep posting what you learn. Someone else will be helped by your experience too.

I looked at it again last night and the seat fits loose and I can lift the back and see the bolts of the rear seat. I was almost able to get the rear seat off but the bolts were too tight and I started to bugger up one of the allen heads.

The cylinder in the lock is frozen and does not have any free play. I checked my other bikes and the cylinders float when you insert a key or screwdriver. I still need an extra key so I will try that first but I think breaking the lock is my only option .

Bummer, we always hope for the easy fix! Perhaps some penetrating oil squirted in? A bit more aggressive than WD40, but nothing to lose at this point.

Looks like if you remove the security bolts the assembly may be loose enough to push in and lever down with a large screwdriver enough to release the latch. I've never tried that, but grasping at straws.

EricV said:

You do know that the key doesn't fit all the way in like the ignition, right? It only goes about half way in, up to the square shoulder.

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Simple stuff for those of us who have a seat lock that works properly, not so much for someone that is not familiar with the bike and has something not work right off the bat. Great insight to point this out EricV.

SmokinRZ said:

No I didn’t. I will look at it again tonight. It hangs up when I try to remove it and I only have one key at the moment so I don’t want to get too aggressive with it.

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So are you saying that you got the key to go in as Eric described but it won't turn and it hangs when you try to remove the key from the lock?

As others have mentioned, but I don't think it can be overstated, spray WD-40 in the key hole, around the rim of the tumbler, anywhere to flush out any dirt or crud. Wiggle the key and repeat dousing the tumbler.
I have had pad locks where the key would not turn. They appeared to be clean but only a small grain of sand in the wrong place can lock them up and the key would not turn. Flushing it out with WD40 freed up the lock.

Here are some more thoughts, and maybe some trivial details but sometimes it's the little things that matter. Hopefully some of it may help:
Key:

• I got some spare keys made for my 2013. The ILCO blank is a X248 YM63. Looks like this - Link
• Like Eric said the key just goes in up to the square shoulder. Mine is actually about 2 mm shy of being in flush to the square shoulder.
• Turn the key counter clockwise (my VStrom turns clockwise). My key only turns less than 1/8 of a turn to fully open the latch. If it was working properly, you would hear a click when the latch releases.

Access to the latch
On removing the rear seat. I don't see how that would help any but I think it could be done.
The plastic shelf it sits on is still even with the top of the front seat so I don't see how that would help.
I have a Seat Concepts seat. I can stick my fingers between the seats and feel the Allen bolt heads and get a 5mm allen wrench on ok. The short arm of my L shaped wrench did not give me much leverage so I did not try real hard to remove it. I think you would need a T shaped wrench.

If the problem turns out to be not the tumbler sticking but something binding the latch, you may need to hold the key in the open position while you are pushing down on the seat and wiggling the seat around as others have already mentioned.

I did look at ways to get at the latch. I don't think removing the security screw and pushing the lock in would help any.
The latch is protected on all sides, I think the only way to access it is from the top.
I'll get back to this but first look at the attached pictures.


See attached pictures:
Picture 1 has a green arrow pointing to the latch. This is where the latch latches onto a bracket attached to the bottom of the seat.

Picture 2 is a closeup. See the black bracket below the latch, there are 2 slots in that bracket. In the slot on the right you can see the other end of the latch.
This end of the latch is where you pull it back to release the seat. There is a slot on this end of the latch where the cable lays in. You can also see there is a head at the end of the cable so when you turn the key the cable pulls the latch back to release the seat.


The latch easily slides back over the cable by pulling back on the top part of the slot.
I took a stiff piece of wire (clothes hangar) and with the seat off I could bend the wire to the right shape so that with the seat on I could slide the wire under the edge of the seat, hook on to the notch and pull back to release the seat latch.

I put some yellow tape on the wire so I knew how far to insert the wire and put some blue masking tape on the frame so the wire did not scratch it.

The problem with this is you need to have another Tenere with a working seat latch so that you can get the right bends in the wire and work on your technique to get the wire in the right position to grab the slot on the latch.

I was able to do all this and get my seat off without using the key in about 30 minutes or so, much less time than it took to take pictures and write all this up.

Another concern I have is what you said in Reply 20 above, "the seat fits loose and I can lift the back". The seat should be secure, there is hardly any movement when I lift on my seat. This makes me wonder if the tumbler being jammed is not the problem but rather it is the latch that is jammed more than just needing to be pushed down on the seat as mentioned above.

Very nice post @SparrowHawkxx

I think Sparrowhawks last paragraph has it nailed.