I work with mostly black, ethnic, Muslim people and the vast majority who don't want it do not have a legitimate reason. They do however talk a lot about " their human rights " whilst having no respect for everyone else's. I am all for supporting people who have legit conditions as its the right thing to do. The real problem is this is cultural so there is not much point throwing Science and logic at these people as they simply will not buy into it.
Will you take the vaccine
- Thread starter Tenman
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This mostly applies to our big cities.
Tenman
Well-Known Member
IMO The workers will know the risks. If you don't like it drag up. I've seen guys quit for deer season and no smoking rules and less. When I was a kid in the 60's. EVERYBODY got lots of shots at school. NOBODY protested anything. It was looked at as good for mankind. Suddenly this 1 vaccine is either fake or deadly and maybe a chip in it ETC. What BS. My wwII dad line up nuts to buts and took every shot they threw at them. He was a marine in the south pacific at the Iwo Jima conflict. He never said anybody got sick. . Lots of casualties though. I got carried away again
Guys - Talking about the need to pay more wages, getting into racial aspects and human rights, etc, is right on the border of going from talk about the vaccine into politics.
Bring it back on topic before we need to start deleting posts and upsetting people.
Thanks
Bring it back on topic before we need to start deleting posts and upsetting people.
Thanks
Apologies. I think the point I was trying to make is Countries make policies reflecting their National Identities however big cities are never reflective of their respective nations so we need to come up with something that can get over this.
A friend here asked me in a personal text how a guy like me who is a non-smoker and somewhat fit got the booster while he's not been able to. I REALLY understand the frustration and since it may help more than him . . .
My daughter has such immune deficiencies that her doctor wanted her to get her shot (not booster) across from an ER because there was such a chance she would crash. She also had to load up on antihistamines first. Where we went is not a popular place and being fairly early, we were pretty much alone with the nurses giving the shots toward the start of their day. I was talking to one as the others were processing my daughter and we were having just a pleasant conversation when the nurse asked what I do and when did I get the original shot. Seeing the opportunity, I related - honestly - that since retiring from the Gummint I teach firefighters (teachers move to the front of the list here), got the 1st shot exactly 6 months ago in March (that's a criteria), and that in a couple of weeks I would need to fly far away to be the oldest person (65+ group) stuck on a work boat for two weeks with 28 other people, a few of whom are anti-vaxers from the Texas oil patch. (need their job skills so unavoidable) It was living on the boat with so many people that really had me nervous and asking for a booster in the first place.
The nurse then asked about me having immune deficiencies and other conditions. By this time my daughter had her shot and is standing with us. I mentioned taking blood pressure pills and to be honest, the nurse was kind of prompting me to think of something more as an excuse. That's when my brilliant microbiologist daughter pointed out that I occasionally have itchy dry psoriasis. What she knew and I didn't is that it's an auto-immune condition that so many people have which nobody recognizes and doctors don't record it unless it's really bad. That was all it took to push my case over the edge.
So what made the difference and how much can you use? I don't know but in retrospect, it was also in part being friendly and in the right place at the right time.
ref for more about auto-immune conditions:
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/what-does-it-mean-to-be-immunocompromised-coronavirus-covid-19/
My daughter has such immune deficiencies that her doctor wanted her to get her shot (not booster) across from an ER because there was such a chance she would crash. She also had to load up on antihistamines first. Where we went is not a popular place and being fairly early, we were pretty much alone with the nurses giving the shots toward the start of their day. I was talking to one as the others were processing my daughter and we were having just a pleasant conversation when the nurse asked what I do and when did I get the original shot. Seeing the opportunity, I related - honestly - that since retiring from the Gummint I teach firefighters (teachers move to the front of the list here), got the 1st shot exactly 6 months ago in March (that's a criteria), and that in a couple of weeks I would need to fly far away to be the oldest person (65+ group) stuck on a work boat for two weeks with 28 other people, a few of whom are anti-vaxers from the Texas oil patch. (need their job skills so unavoidable) It was living on the boat with so many people that really had me nervous and asking for a booster in the first place.
The nurse then asked about me having immune deficiencies and other conditions. By this time my daughter had her shot and is standing with us. I mentioned taking blood pressure pills and to be honest, the nurse was kind of prompting me to think of something more as an excuse. That's when my brilliant microbiologist daughter pointed out that I occasionally have itchy dry psoriasis. What she knew and I didn't is that it's an auto-immune condition that so many people have which nobody recognizes and doctors don't record it unless it's really bad. That was all it took to push my case over the edge.
So what made the difference and how much can you use? I don't know but in retrospect, it was also in part being friendly and in the right place at the right time.
ref for more about auto-immune conditions:
https://www.goodrx.com/blog/what-does-it-mean-to-be-immunocompromised-coronavirus-covid-19/
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I spent almost 10 years in the Patch, some of it offshore. Anytime someone showed up with a cold or flu almost everyone would get it before the next shift change. Good to hear you were able to get the booster before heading out
BOSS and I had our shots yesterday. Aside from a mildly sore arm last night, no problem
Have to tell you though, the 3rd eye from the original shots is really awesome.
I got the Pfizer booster shot yesterday. Other then a sore shoulder, no other side effects. Wish I could have had the Moderna, in that it is a bigger shot (amount) and seems to last longer due to that, but calling around about it, and wasn't going to happen.
My youngest daughter (upper 20's), is part of the study on booster shots for people that have had the J&J. They gave her the Pfizer booster.
My youngest daughter (upper 20's), is part of the study on booster shots for people that have had the J&J. They gave her the Pfizer booster.
You are correct, but that's the problem nowadays. The vaccine shouldn't be political, but it is. Like Tenman referred to, once upon a time everybody saw it as their duty to do everything they could to prevent diseases. And, the military? When did they start allowing a choice in anything? In bootcamp, we were lined up, and "shot up". Never crossed out mind to ask what they were puting in us. With the amount of doses available, there shouldn't be a question whether or not to give someone a booster that wants one. Because, there's enough people that are not going to take it, that we need to keep everybody else protected. Getting it, or not getting, or even being allowed to get it . . . . is nothing but political. And, it shouldn't be.
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Had the third dose and only side effect was a little runny nose and that itchy feeling in your sinuses you feel right before a cold is coming on. That and the standard sore arm at the injection site. Next day I felt fine. Not sure if the running nose was from the shot or not.
My wife is waiting on the Moderna booster but we feel she is still very well protected as she has been exposed a couple times now from friends that where close up for several minutes inside. They came down with Covid the day after and she never felt any symptoms and is fine.
Thanks for the Moderna clarification guys .
My wife is waiting on the Moderna booster but we feel she is still very well protected as she has been exposed a couple times now from friends that where close up for several minutes inside. They came down with Covid the day after and she never felt any symptoms and is fine.
Thanks for the Moderna clarification guys .
So I’m confused, is this a “vaccine “ or something else like a Flu “shot”?
it seems convenient to blame the ineffectiveness of the original “shot” on a new XYZ variant. I can’t seem to find where any Covid tests tell what strain it is if positive.
We were told to get the shot so that it would stop the “mutation” of new strains.
Then it changed to “you can still be infected and carry the virus but you won’t get AS sick”.
Breakthrough cases are common, and if the vaccine doesn’t work, it is so easy to blame a new ABC strain that is 100 x more contagious than the last strain.
And I’ve had both Phizer shots. So I’m not anti vax.
I’m skeptical, we think we’re so smart and have the science down. And the public hoards toilet paper during a pandemic.
We don’t have herd immunity, we have herd mentality.
You can delete this post as well, as seems to be the case with any others that question the crusade of the vaccine or shot or booster or emperors new clothes.
it seems convenient to blame the ineffectiveness of the original “shot” on a new XYZ variant. I can’t seem to find where any Covid tests tell what strain it is if positive.
We were told to get the shot so that it would stop the “mutation” of new strains.
Then it changed to “you can still be infected and carry the virus but you won’t get AS sick”.
Breakthrough cases are common, and if the vaccine doesn’t work, it is so easy to blame a new ABC strain that is 100 x more contagious than the last strain.
And I’ve had both Phizer shots. So I’m not anti vax.
I’m skeptical, we think we’re so smart and have the science down. And the public hoards toilet paper during a pandemic.
We don’t have herd immunity, we have herd mentality.
You can delete this post as well, as seems to be the case with any others that question the crusade of the vaccine or shot or booster or emperors new clothes.
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I will agree that the vaccine is not the magic bullet that we all hoped it would be.
Saying that, Ontario releases daily data of vaxxed/unvaxxed cases/hospitalized/ICU. The numbers are pretty clear that the vaccine is having a significant positive impact in all areas.
I cannot speak to your other points but the likelihood of mutation is a straight up exercise in probability. As an arbitrary number, assume the probability is 1 in 1 million replications of the virus. If you give the virus 10 million replications, the expected value outcome of mutations is 10 and so on as you increase the number of replications.
the total number of replications is increased as more people are infected. Along with that increase, the likely hood of possible mutations goes up. Conversely, if we decrease the number of people being infected, the replications decrease as does the possible mutations.
If more of our population is vaccinated and the general resistance of the population increases we will slow the replications and the likely hood of mutations. On that basis alone, I believe being vaccinated is socially as well as personally wise.
A couple of more of my overinflated pennys
We had Pfizer shots.
So help me understand, if we can still be infected whilst vaccinated, can the virus still mutate?
It seems logical to me that it could. As we have not iradicated the virus.
Why has this not happened with other vaccines like polio, measles, and the like?
It seems logical to me that it could. As we have not iradicated the virus.
Why has this not happened with other vaccines like polio, measles, and the like?
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
This ^^^^
Good question. It did not happen for one or all of a couple of reasons
1. Not as contagious as Covid
2. Higher Vaccination rates
3. rate of mutation- I am moving out of my expertise here but I do not believe all viruses mutate at the same rate
4. rate of replication
5. time lag from transmission and subsequent semi-full isolation
Again, I am not a virologist so there may be other factors involved.
I do not believe any vaccine is 100% but increasing the vax rate will slow the replication. The extraordinarily high Vax rate for small pox is the reason it is considered eradicated. (not extinct. CDC still has viable samples)
CW already mentioned it, but discussions about the cultural, political or religious reasons why people do or do not get the vaccine will be moderated.
@WJBertrand asked about breakthrough infections, and that they mostly seemed to occur in those with the Pfizer vaccine. I guess that would make me an outlier, as I had the J&J shot in March 2021, and was likely infected in June 2021. The caveat to my infection is that every test I have ever taken has come back negative, even immediately after recovering from the worst of my symptoms, when the experts say you may still test positive (up to 90 days after infection). I am a bit frustrated about the lack of data regarding the J&J shot and boosters, especially given how many of my clients are requiring proof of vaccination as a condition for working. Given the current concern about waning efficacy, the fact that I got my shot 6 months ago could very well affect my livelihood. I would also be interested to know how being infected affects antibody response to exposure, since in most cases recovering should provide better immune response. So better antibody tests are needed, since the experts are saying the current ones are not that accurate/effective.
@Mak10 I am not an expert by any means, CW's daughter would be a much better source to answer your questions. However, my understanding, based on big number math and the infection rates of the variants, is that vaccinations reduce the pool of host candidates, thereby reducing the likelihood of mutations. Yes, the virus can and will still mutate, but as more people are vaccinated (or potentially infected and recovered), the rate of mutation will slow down to a point where outbreaks can be more effectively dealt with. As far as other viruses, only one has been eradicated: smallpox. There are others that are close and can be eradicated with current technology and practices. See this wikipedia article for more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_infectious_diseases
@WJBertrand asked about breakthrough infections, and that they mostly seemed to occur in those with the Pfizer vaccine. I guess that would make me an outlier, as I had the J&J shot in March 2021, and was likely infected in June 2021. The caveat to my infection is that every test I have ever taken has come back negative, even immediately after recovering from the worst of my symptoms, when the experts say you may still test positive (up to 90 days after infection). I am a bit frustrated about the lack of data regarding the J&J shot and boosters, especially given how many of my clients are requiring proof of vaccination as a condition for working. Given the current concern about waning efficacy, the fact that I got my shot 6 months ago could very well affect my livelihood. I would also be interested to know how being infected affects antibody response to exposure, since in most cases recovering should provide better immune response. So better antibody tests are needed, since the experts are saying the current ones are not that accurate/effective.
@Mak10 I am not an expert by any means, CW's daughter would be a much better source to answer your questions. However, my understanding, based on big number math and the infection rates of the variants, is that vaccinations reduce the pool of host candidates, thereby reducing the likelihood of mutations. Yes, the virus can and will still mutate, but as more people are vaccinated (or potentially infected and recovered), the rate of mutation will slow down to a point where outbreaks can be more effectively dealt with. As far as other viruses, only one has been eradicated: smallpox. There are others that are close and can be eradicated with current technology and practices. See this wikipedia article for more details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_infectious_diseases
The probability theory works, IF the vaccine kept one from being a host.
But now we are being told, that vaccinated people are both hosts and carriers of the virus. This doesn’t work, stopping the mutation. Maybe it helps with the severity of Covid if you are infected.
Looking at the numbers Redger posted, the case load looks better for the folks who only had one vaccine. Just the bottom numbers don’t add up.
Please show me where Covid is more “infectious” than smallpox for example?
How do we know that the Delta variant is much more contagious than before? Do the people getting tested now get told what strain or variety they are infected with? I’m guessing not.
We all want a fast easy fix, it’s not looking fast or easy.
But now we are being told, that vaccinated people are both hosts and carriers of the virus. This doesn’t work, stopping the mutation. Maybe it helps with the severity of Covid if you are infected.
Looking at the numbers Redger posted, the case load looks better for the folks who only had one vaccine. Just the bottom numbers don’t add up.
Please show me where Covid is more “infectious” than smallpox for example?
How do we know that the Delta variant is much more contagious than before? Do the people getting tested now get told what strain or variety they are infected with? I’m guessing not.
We all want a fast easy fix, it’s not looking fast or easy.
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