ECU Flash and Vehicle Insurance costs

Rewop

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Hi, I have been thinking about getting my 2013 S10 flashed, and just wondered what this might do to the annual insurance premium. Would be interested to hear from those that have flashed their bike what additional charge if any was added to their insurance premium and what if any details about the flash were required by the insurer. Regards to all
 

Checkswrecks

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Mind that I'm in the US, but the only way a flash could affect insurance is if insurance were to find out. That's not happening unless (A) you tell them &/or (B) it became suspected as a cause of an accident, which is highly unlikely.
 

jbrown

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Note also that in the US, modifications that render smog controls ineffective on street driven vehicles are illegal. I don't know how the exchange would go if you confessed to your insurance agent that you violated a federal law related to your insured vehicle.
 

WJBertrand

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Why on earth would you tell your insurance company? The re-flash is otherwise completely invisible without a factory scanner. Are the shops providing the flash compelled to inform the authorities or something? Besides, I don’t think it adds much power, mostly just improves power delivery making the bike easier and I would argue, safer to ride.


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Sierra1

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. . . . (B) it became suspected as a cause of an accident, which is highly unlikely.
Yes, but even then the "black box", or ECU would have to be sent in for forensic investigation. It's been my experience, that only happens with the loss of life. I would expect that if a bike is involved in a "loss of life crash". . . . it's going to be the rider. Which is usually cleared as "death of offender". But, I agree with Mr. Bertrand, it was my understanding that a flash only smoothed out the throttle, not give you more throttle.
 

Rewop

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I think I've opened a can of worms here, but thanks for your thoughts. My inclination would be to declare the flash to the insurance company. The thought of me or my dependents not getting paid out possibly thousands of pounds because I've lied in order to save a few quid doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps I worry too much but I think insurance companies are experts in looking for any excuse to minimise their payouts and they will be aware that bikes like the S10 are often flashed and they will check this if the potential payout is big enough. Even if they check just by asking and you or your dependents say no and then are later found out there could then be action taken for fraud. Of course I don't know don't know if the extra cost is likely to be just a few pounds or much more, and this will make the difference as to whether I flash the bike or not.
If as WJBertrand says a reflash only adds a little more horsepower and smooths out the throttle I now wonder if its really worth doing. From what I'd read elsewhere I was under the impression that there were upwards of 10 extra hp to be gained as well as removing the restrictions on the first three gears and smoother throttle response. Thanks again guys
 

MattR

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I think it could be reasonable to argue that the power of a flashed ECU is not significantly higher than the advertised power from Yamaha so how did it contribute to the crash? If the insurance investigators go to the length of interrogation of the ECU it follows that they would also have to Dyno the bike to see what difference had been made otherwise you could argue that yes, you had it flashed but it didn’t work and actually gave less power now. If they do Dyno the bike (I’ve never heard of it) they will not find a significant difference on the S10 between the flashed ecu and a OEM ecu. That’s not where you get gains from flashing. Of course emissions will be affected especially low down but that’s not a concern of the insurance company. I wouldn’t tell them. And if you are the unluckiest person in the world that they do all of the above to, just say you hadn’t done it and it must have been done before you got the bike


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MattR

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Good luck to them. If they can succeed in arguing in court that a 3 - 5 bhp increase was responsible for the accident fair play. It’s no different to putting a performance pipe on


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Dneprrider

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Recently I switched car insurance providers. The new insurer asked a specific question which I had never been asked before. I do not recall the exact phrase but it was something along the lines of "Did I add anything or modify anything in the car from what was originally provided by the manufacturer".
So based on this then I can say that at least one vehicle insurance provider is now requesting information on end-user modifications to a vehicle. They may only be thinking hardware mods but as software becomes ever more integrated into a vehicle. I would suspect that software changes will eventually form part of future insurer questions. Just imagine in a few years - "Sorry Judge but when I flashed my new autopilot car I didn't know it would turn off the forward looking proximity radar, and I didn't mean to crash into the transport truck"

So this begs the question if the insurer does not ask if there are vehicle changes\end-user mods, then is the end user obliged to divulge any modifications or changes to the vehicle? That is a good question for a lawyer to answer.

Not sure if this helped or not, but it certainly made me think of how what used to be a mundane thing like getting vehicle insurance has changed.
 
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Checkswrecks

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Anyone in insurance accident forensics is taking copious notes atm lol...
I resemble that remark and Sierra1's got a solid background in it too.

Again, there are only negative reasons for offering ANY INFORMATION to an insurance company that they don't require, and nobody is going to know if a bike has been flashed.

The flash doesn't create horsepower, it changes the relation between throttle position and the butterflies up to 100% power. Typically it smooths the throttle response and shifts a bit of the power band lower, so it feels like it is magically giving you extra power.
 

jbrown

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I think the effect of a flash depends entirely on what the tech decides to change. I've only changed the throttle mapping on my bike, but I have access to change fueling, timing, rpm limit, etc.. So a flash could change the actual power output and/or emissions output. If done incorrectly, a flash could also introduce bugs in the software, potentially creating an unsafe situation. If you ran in to someone and claimed the throttle was stuck, there is the possibility that a flash could be assumed to be the cause. No one who flashes your bike will accept any liability for something like that.
 

StefanOnHisS10

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Thank god that we don’t have to tell our insurance company’s anything about upgrades like flash exhaust etc. I do have the accessories ensured separately. Because if I crash and get a standard exhaust (example) in return instead of my akra I’m pissed. But we don’t have to tell about power upgrades, they don’t care :D.

Stefan
 

PhilPhilippines

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Thank god that we don’t have to tell our insurance company’s anything about upgrades like flash exhaust etc. I do have the accessories ensured separately. Because if I crash and get a standard exhaust (example) in return instead of my akra I’m pissed. But we don’t have to tell about power upgrades, they don’t care :D.

Stefan
I taught a 17 year old back in the 90's that was promised a Ford Escort Cosworth if he passed his test. The car 21,000, the insurance quote, 25,000. More money than sense.

Any mods, I would have a hard look at the small print. Insurance companies are not in it for love as you know.
 

MattR

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I taught a 17 year old back in the 90's that was promised a Ford Escort Cosworth if he passed his test. The car 21,000, the insurance quote, 25,000. More money than sense.

Any mods, I would have a hard look at the small print. Insurance companies are not in it for love as you know.
When my son learnt to drive I struggled to decide what to get him. Do I get him an old banger as he’s bound to smash it up? Or do I buy him a new car hoping he’ll take better care of it? I bought new in the end. A few months later he smashed it up hitting a tree. Because it was new, the car had airbags, anti submarine seats, seat belt tensioners and steering wheel relocation. All of these systems had deployed and I’m convinced saved his life. I’m also convinced that if he had crashed in a banger he wouldn’t have survived.


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